The Steel Guitar Forum

I don’t think the pedal steel guitar is going to survive the new technology.
I think with new improved and small more versatile solenoids that the standard guitar is going to be expanded from the robot self tuning to the instant tuning to chords and solenoid generated bends until robot 6 string guitar can imitate the pedal steel guitar.

Actually, Stuart, this should be in the "Pedal Steel" section. Maybe b0b would move it?

What are your reasons for thinking the pedal steel can't survive this evolution when you figure the 6 string can?
Anything that can copy the foot or knee action on a conventional pedal/lever might work better than pedals. But it has to be able to do just that, copy the fast or slow action or halfways(half A ped for example)of the foot's movement

I am not in any way sure of this myself, just throwing ideas out there.

I am trying to compare this idea to something I have experience with: A Cat loader used to have 16" long mechanical levers opening a valve to activate the lifting of the bucket for example...very hard and tiring.
The modern Cat has a 2" lever working on the electric over hydraulic principle..works so easy you can use one finger on it instead of the whole arm. Smooth as silk, lighter overall, very reliable and you still have the feel of detent as you work the lever.

Bent, I like compare what should naturally happen to the pedal steel and what happened to the piano. The Grande piano or baby Grande piano the best but much to expensive for most people and a piano was a burden to transport so it was mainly in wealthy homes and Orchestras or in studios. A cheap piano would weigh as much as a 4 piece band and cost what it would to buy all the band equipment. Whala the electric piano and everybody has one. Throw it in a bag and take it anywhere. When is the last time you saw a real piano at a concert or in a traveling country band or any band for that matter. I think this is going to happen with the pedal steel guitar.

Ok, If I understand you correctly, your belief is that the pedal steel will remain the mechanical pedal steel, it will become lighter and more portable. So light, in fact, that you will be able to 'throw it in a bag', like the el. piano and away you go?

The new MSA steels are certainly on their way to make your prediction come true.

-But what if you could make them even lighter with electric solenoids and eliminate a lot of metal in the under carriage?

-What if those solenoids rendered unnecessary the use of heavy materials needed to combat the cabinet drop?

- What if lighter foot and knee action on the switches or valves meant that the body could be very light because there would be no fear of the guitar walking across the stage when you hit a mechanical knee lever?

Very interesting....I get your point, I think. Not just the solenoids...but a body actuator to induce the "FEEL" of the player INTO the solenoid. A driver so to speak to replace the mechanical linkage AND with the subtlety of the players technique...very interesting idea.

Daryl, exactly. The 'pedals' or switches operated with the foot would need to have a pedal feel to them.
the solenoids that would do the actual pulling or pushing of the finger would have to be able to respond speed wise according to the speed of the foot. In other words, fast, slow or in between.

I dont want a CNC steel guitar. Thats why I have a manual milling machine. Half the fun building steel guitars is doing it yourself,also I cant afford a CNC mill. I'm old but , at least for now I dont need a solonoid to think for me or execute my thoughts. Leave it on the six strings. Martin.

What Martin said.....at a time when so much "music"is being made by software programs,the last thing I need is more technology intruding i
nto the player/instrument relationship.Why in the world would you want a servo to make your pulls for you?That`s why it`s called a 'PEDAL STEEL'.If you find this to be unsatisfactory,maybe you should take up another instrument.Regardless of the 6 string evolution,the psg will remain alive and well around my house.

Martin, Tom,

It is not a solenoid 'thinking' for you, it is just a different transfer of movement. You still do all the thinking. You still push the 'pedals', levers, switches whatever. The idea with solenoids is just a different way of transferring the foot/knee movement to the string. The theory/thinking would be that with solenoids it would mean less weight and less force needed to move said string, ergo less movement of guitar body and thereby less cab drop.

Stuart, if you can build a working solenoid-based changer, I have designed a user interface for configuring it. I'm looking for an engineer who can solve the mechanical problems. I'm a software engineer by profession.

No way, dude!

From sled to horse drawn cart, Model T to T Bird, Wright Flyer to SR-71, Looking at the Moon to Standing on the Moon. It's going to happen. I may not be called Robo Steel, it may not be hydrolic powered. But it will happen. And I believe there is some really bright young person with an MIT degree or similar background who likes the sound of steel, working on what it will take to get-er-done right now. In the 60s, I flew RC Model airplanes, with servos as big as cigarett packs. Now they are flying Model Planes ten times as big with servos that you can hold 5 or 6 in one hand. Servos that are proportional, ie. you move, it moves, as fast or as slow as you want. Ten or more channel transmitters, that's enough for tenor more pedals and/or knee levers.

Will they ever replace the Buds, Emmons or the like. No, not as long as one of us old guys can still get our steel out of the case, set up and pick a note or two.

Love the past, but embrace the future. It's healthy and not such a bad thing.

Amen, Dick.
There are people who have made strides in this already. See b0b's post, above.

Right,what the psg needs is a software program,then it`ll tune up for you,correct any out of tune notes,play chords triggered by one note so you won`t have to find them etc.Then steel players can fit right in with the Sweetwater crowd of phonies and posers.

Tom Higgins wrote:Right,what the psg needs is a software program,then it`ll tune up for you,correct any out of tune notes,play chords triggered by one note so you won`t have to find them etc.Then steel players can fit right in with the Sweetwater crowd of phonies and posers.

Not at all. What I envision is a way to change the copedent (the open tuning + what all the pedals and knee levers do) by pushing a button. If the changer is controlled electronically, this is entirely feasible.

Such a feature is highly desirable. Few songs use more than 3 pedals and 4 knee levers, but many players need Crawford clusters and extra pedals to meet the demands of the set list.

To date, I have not been able to find reasonably priced solenoids that can actually pull a string with the required force and precision. An electrical engineer with a background in robotics might be able to solve this problem. It's beyond my own area of expertise.

Jack M,
I am having loads of fun with my homebuilt too.
But it seems some people think that using solenoids etc will render your guitar to a robot. This is so far from accurate.
All you would do is use solenoids to move the changer fingers instead of the pedal rods and pull rods. You would still be in full control. There would be no robots or automatic chord generation.

I have 2 questions:

Any idea of the component cost of one of these? (in quantity of course)

Why do mechanically what you can do with electronics and software? This would eliminate feedback control systems and all the problems they have with overshoot, repeatability, precision, and, yes, hysterisis.

Here's what one company does with servo-motors and software: http://transperformance.com/index2.htm

Sonny Landreth has played this guitar, using it to change his open tunings with a press of a button. I can imagine it could be used with foot controllers for pedals.

Steve

Stuart,
I liked your comparison about how what happened to piano should also happen to steel so well that it brings to mind
"The Player Piano"
With only a little more innovation we can just sit back and watch it play
I just hope im not around to see it......

I think this would do it for most players at a gig. An Emmons lick here and a Hughey lick there and some Franklin thrown in everywhere E I E I O.

There's also this from Gibson. Servo-controlled tuning machines, and a selector knob for choosing your preferred tuning.
http://www.gibson.com/robotguitar/Robot ... oting.aspx

Push a button and get someone elses tone and sound? Aint never gonna happen.

Did Sage Harmos build a solenoid-based pedal steel some years back?

Here's the link:
http://www.harmosmusic.com/news04sound.htm

I'd leave the E9 neck the way it is but just imagine a C6 neck with presets for the pedals... You could play any song easily. Super idea!
Danny Bates

Super idea until it breaks! Then you're screwed!