The Steel Guitar Forum

Assuming nothing is better than a tube pre-amp, which solid state pre-amps come closest to the good sound of a tube pre-amp? Please notice I said, assuming nothing is better than a tube pre-amp. I am not wanting a debate on why a tube pre-amp is so much better. Just want to know your pick of a solid state pre-amp?

I'm not a nano-splitting expert, but the Pod xt Preamp has a good "tube preamp" model, adjustable for volume and "drive".

EJL

Keith,
I assembled a powered speaker cab yesterday (1x15 w. JBL D130F and a MosValve 960 ?). I plan to use it with the Mesa Studio Pre. I test drove the new cab with different pre-amps I have around the house.The Mesa did sound best,as I expected. Surprisingly, the pre that came closest to the tubenes of the Boogie was the Twin Rev model on a Boss VF-1! Definitely more tube-like than an Evans (which is great in it`s own way), for example.

Keith,
I like the Evans preamp, especially the older models without the adjustable body and expand controls.
Dale

Any preamp that uses FET transistors
(field effect), instead of the usual IC chips will behave more like a tube preamp
since they're current dependant like a tube. Most regular transistors and chips are voltage dependant.
I'm not sure if there are any that are on the market, but maybe someone will design one...possibly similar
to the preamp section of the old Webb amps. If so, let us all know when it's ready

ART MPA-1

Pre-amps are over-rated...

I know it's not answering your question but I'd like to say that, to me, it is the power amp that seems most important.

Tone is obviously due to many factors including the pre-amp, power amp and speaker, and if you get a great pre-amp and then a low quality power amp you will not get a great tone. But for some reason, I find that the power amp has a greater influence on the dynamics. I'm not too sure of the technical reasons behind this but in my experience it is true.

There is a difference in sound between pre-amp saturation (which I believe can be quite nicely emulated using non valve or modelling technology) and power amp saturation, which I believe has been largely overlooked. You can play with this on some guitar amps which have a seperate pre-amp and power amp gain control. To my ears you get a better sounding overdrive by upping the power amp, although this can often be too loud.

This is probably why the likes of Line 6 and Marshall AVT do not sound very good to me. The Vox valvtronix amps seem to do a better job - does anyone know why that might be?

I often wonder how good the line 6 pods would sound going into the power amp section of a valve guitar amp? Anyone tried this?

Stereo Steel!
http://www.stereosteel.com/systems.htm

Simon Stephenson wrote:Tone is obviously due to many factors including the pre-amp, power amp and speaker, and if you get a great pre-amp and then a low quality power amp you will not get a great tone. But for some reason, I find that the power amp has a greater influence on the dynamics.

That sure is what I have found to be the case. I used a bunch of types of preamps in developing my SPLIT self-powered speaker. For reliable tone, you need enough power and "speed" to honor the sound that comes out of the preamp.

I personally love the sound of the Revelation and Tonic tube preamps. I also have a great solid state preamp made by Pearce. The company is out of business now but it's a close second to the Rev and Tonic.
TC

I am a big fan of the Blue Tube II.
This unit might have a tube in it but I think it is primarily solid state.

I use a MIC 200 it has so many adjustments you should find one you like, Just $49.00, i HAVE BEEN SEARCHING FOR THE SOUND jOHN USES, HE CALLED LAST nite while I was practicing heard my guitar on the phone and said it was like his sound, on the phone line that is close. He uses a Carter U12, and a Fender SK, mine is a Vegas 400. with the MIC200. You may like it and the price is right.

ernie

I don't agree with a FET being current dependent and a IC being voltage dependent. There are many FETs in IC chips.

Even though it is old and heavy, my favorite pre-amp and reverb is in the Session 500. I have tried and owned many amps NONE were more clean and clear to my ears than the 500 for pedal steel. Favorite tube amp was an old Fender Twin (without the reverb) which I played with my Fender T-3.

Thanx,
Jim

The new ones are always better.....

(heh, heh, heh )

I've really gone over to the dark side, the newest amp modelers give you a good clean signal which can then be gussied up without running a bunch more additional cords and devices each with their own preamps - after the third stompbox in a row, "tone" is kind of a joke concept, right? The PodXT has a decent preamp, but I'm still liking the Digitech RP250 more for it's "natural" (ahem) tones.

Keith, I assume you know all about the old Realtube 902 rack unit. It is analog and mostly solid state, with the 12AX7 for cosmetic reasons. That's why I responded to this thread.
The reason I like this unit is because of the unique EQ it has with the Bias and Contour controls. I put a 12AU7 in mine and use it below clipping. It can add ice pick tele sounds or fat low end sounds with or without subtle tube distortion. Besides, they are dirt cheap. The schematic is available for a few dollars from Tube Works company.

My last one I paid $70 for from Daddy's Junky Music.

Let me add some to my previous answer. The first steel amp I ever played through that had the 'wow' factor for me was the old full tube Sho-Bud amp in the late 60's. Great full sound and easy controls to get tone I wanted. Didn't buy it beacuse it was too high priced. I kept looking and found a Cain solid state amp head that I bought from Maurice Anderson. It had all of the sound that the full tube Sho-Bud had. The only problem with that amp was that it only put out 100w rms and I was starting to play some big halls ahd needed to more power, then I got my Session 500's.

I wish I had that Cain amp back now that I only play the smaller places.

Thanx,
Jim

Has anyone tried the Boss "Deluxe Reverb" stomp box modeler that came out about a year or so ago? That might be a cool thing to use, if the sound is there.

Has anyone tried the Boss "Deluxe Reverb" stomp box modeler that came out about a year or so ago? That might be a cool thing to use, if the sound is there.

I bought one as a graduation gift for my daughter's boyfriend. We checked it out and wound up taking it back to exchange for a Pod. We just couldn't get a serious clean tone out of it. We found the ratty signature of a pushed Deluxe Reverb right away, but found it very hard to pull it back into the clean zone of a Deluxe Reverb set up clean (5751 first preamp tube with a slightly cold bias).

For guitar, I still think a properly tweaked older Pod 2 is the best thing going for the Fender Deluxe Reverb sound. I think they have tried to capture the overdriven power-tube sound, but it needs to be tweaked from the factory settings. In addition - to me, they sound best run through a clean, fairly warm power amp or bass amp. My favorite amp to use this for guitar is the 50-watt solid-state Ampeg BA-12, which is Ampeg's attempt to get a modern solid-state amp with something like the old Flip Top tone. Not enough juice for most PSG gigs, but fine if the stage volume is low.

I've tried various solid-state preamps for years and years - yes the FET preamps sound more tubey to me than harsh bipolar transistors, but I still don't think they sound like tubes when they're pushed.

Remember the Fetrons in some of the Boogie Mark II amps? For example, see here: http://www.harpamps.com/micKqanda/What-is-a-Fetron.html

These were used as solid-state substitute for a 12AX7 tube. I think the nearly universal conclusion was that these sounded pretty harsh, as compared to a real tube - that certainly was mine.

Just my opinions, of course.

What Simon said was very true. Most "tube emulators" are preamp-based, but the tone of a "tube amp" as we usually think of it (especially one pushed fairly hard, but still clean) largely results from the types of tubes and transformer saturation - in the POWER section. It's a symbiotic relationship - tube preamps DO generally sound better (IMO) than SS preamps, but it's the power section that's the "heart" of the amp.

As an example, the MusicMan hybrids (tube power amp, SS preamp) sound more like a "tube" amp when cranked up than just about any tube preamp-SS power amp rig.

And FWIW I had the same results with the "Deluxe" pedal - no clean tone to speak of.

Here is the original question:

Solid state pre-amp that comes closest to tube pre-amp sound ?

roland GP 100
JJ

Here is the original question:

Solid state pre-amp that comes closest to tube pre-amp sound ?

What is the "tube preamp sound"? IMO, it's not just one thing.

One type of tube preamp is a typical tube-driven voltage amplifier. Within that category, there have been hundreds, if not thousands, of different such preamps over the years. If that is the "true tube preamp sound", which one are you talking about?

A very different type of tube preamp is a power amp attached to a speaker emulator or some other type of silent load, and equipped with a voltage-divider which converts that voltage signal to line-level.

I've used and owned some of each type. This issue is not that cleanly delineated to insist on a soundbite type of answer, IMO.

I think we can assume that Keith means (out of the thousands of possibilities) the basic Fender type guitar pre-amp that most steelers use if they use a tube pre; Revelation, Boogie, Alembic and the like.

I think the tube modeling devices will likely get the closest. The FET stuff like the Evans, while a great preamp, doesn't sound tubey to me at all. Boss has their COSM based stuff, Vox has theirs, and Line 6 has it going on as they kind of dominate the market. I know there are others too. What I've found is that while they've done great job modeling the sound of tube amp distortion, they've all fallen kind of short when it comes to modeling super clean tube gear. I guess that's hard to do because it's kind of a subtle thing, and there isn't much demand for it from guitarists. I don't have a lot of experience with it, but the best I ever found was the PodXT's model of a '59 Fender Bassman set to run real clean. That's a pretty good sound for steel.


Brad

A little different answer, I like the preamp in my NV112! I can adjust the tone controls many different ways and get a great sound. The pre-gain control can add just a very slight touch of bite if you want, and the tone controls can take you from fat low notes to ice pick trebles, and the mid controls are just about perfect. That's the preamp.
The well designed poweramp does add it's own signature, and a lot of the tone is from the speaker. I think the poweramp compression also adds a lot to the 112 sound, it is very tubelike sag to my ears, but that 112 pre is responsible for a lot of that good sound. JP