Stroh resonator Hawaiian guitar.

colinmcc · Post by **colinmcc** » 12 May 2006 1:44 pm

Another instrument many of you may have never seen is the Stroh resophonic Hawaiian guitar which was made many years before the Nationals. Please take a look at www.notecannons.com under "Strohviols Guitars" towards the end of the index.

It seems clear to us, having seen over a dozen Stroh built instruments including violins and a ukulele(!) that this was the inspiration for the National resonator. Even more interesting, is a report I found that said one 'George Beauchamp' had visited the Stroh factory in Britain in the 1910s, which puts John Dopyera's claim that Beauchamp stole the resonator patent from him in a slightly different light!

Joe Savage · Post by **Joe Savage** » 12 May 2006 2:58 pm

Check out page 20-21 of the Brozman book. It's no secret the Stroh instruments came first. If you don't have a copy of the book, get one. It's a great resource.

colinmcc · Post by **colinmcc** » 12 May 2006 3:08 pm

Thanks Joe,

Yes I have the book, two actually since the color plaes fell out of the hardback copy within days of buying it. I also recomend that readers of my site buy it, as you will see on my home page.

I was hoping that folk would find the pictures of the instrument(s) to be of interest. Did you?

Joe Savage · Post by **Joe Savage** » 12 May 2006 5:58 pm

Sure. I enjoyed the pictures. I just don't know how Beauchamp's visit to Stroh's has anything to do with the National patents. Obviously they expanded or drew on an existing idea,
but Dopyera created something entirely new which certainly has proven itself over time. You don't see a lot of guys playing Stoh steel guitars.

Keith Cordell · Post by **Keith Cordell** » 12 May 2006 6:34 pm

Yeah but I'd love to get one. Tom Waits has used the Stroh Violin to great effect on a couple of albums, a Stroh- Weissenborn would be a blast.

colinmcc · Post by **colinmcc** » 12 May 2006 6:38 pm

I'm glad you took the time to look at the pictures and that you enjoyed them.

Well, The tale I grew up with is that John Dopyera fell out with the National company and left to start the Dobro company with his brothers, because he claimed that although George Beauchamp patented the single cone guitar, it had been John's idea, and that Beauchamp had stolen it/had no right to the patent.

But, if Beauchamp had been in Britian, visiting Stroh some 10 to 20 years BEFORE John started making mechanically amplified instruments, it actually gives a certain credence to Beauchamp's claim that he, Beauchamp had taken the idea to John Dopyera in the first place, and that while John was certainly the man who was able to translate the idea into realization, Beauchamp did actually have a valid right to the US patent.

Interesting stuff I thought, you obviously think different, sorry about that!

Any one else care to comment?

colinmcc · Post by **colinmcc** » 12 May 2006 6:40 pm

Mike D,

Now, a Stroh weissonator... Sounds just your sort of project! And, you have a ready customer in Keith!

Joe Savage · Post by **Joe Savage** » 12 May 2006 8:29 pm

That maybe so, Beauchamp brought an idea to Dopyera who built Beauchamps concept and it sucked, then he (Dopyera) developed his own concept that became the Tricone. One of the greatest guitars ever. I just tend to think Beauchamp was a bit of a rogue. I don't think he actually designed the cone system but took advantage of poorly worded patents to make them his own. By that thinking, Stroh Company should own the patent since Beauchamp apparently was influenced by them.

Colin Brooks · Post by **Colin Brooks** » 13 May 2006 2:51 am

Great stuff Colin. Have you come across this site?
http://www.springersmusic.co.uk/Library/Stroviols.htm

I saw the Springer Sisters play a duet on Strohviol and Howson Stroh style uke a while back........ I would love to know what the Hawaiian and Spanish guitars sound like.

Aloha, CB

Orville Johnson · Post by **Orville Johnson** » 13 May 2006 8:04 am

i played one of those for the EMP music museum here in Seattle. They have soundclips for all the instruments in the Guitar Gallery so that's me you hear.

Very strange sounding instrument and kind of hard to hold on your lap as well! Not particularly loud but certainly a unique sound. I enjoyed having a chance to play it but I don't think i need one.

colinmcc · Post by **colinmcc** » 13 May 2006 9:14 am

Colin B,

Do you know where the Stroh Hawaiian I picture ended up? I had seen one at the "loud and clear" exhibition of John Dopyera's legacy in Erie, and had also heard of the one at the EMP in Seattle that Orville refers to, the one pictures is a third and very complete example.

I was sent the pictures by a dealer in London UK, when I got back to him and enquired about price, he told me that a major UK Museum wanted it but had to wait for a board of trustees meeting to agree the price, so I suspect it was substantial. (I hear a 12,000 UK pounds rumour at one point) I never heard any more, so hope it is on display somewhere!

Thanks too for the link, I had seen that page before but should now add a link to it from my page.

Orville mentions that the one in Seattle is quiet. The mechanical link from the bridge to the resonator is a strange design. As far as I can see the majority of the string tension downwards is taken directly to the body/post of the instrument, and only a very small amount of the latteral vibration from the strings is taken via the pivot to the cone.

John Dopyera's genius was, off course, the concept that all the string vibration could be taken directly to the cone(s)rather than to a flat diaphram via a linkage, as in the tricone set up he developed, this was a logical yet spectacular developement of his banjo and violin making career.[This message was edited by colinmcc on 13 May 2006 at 10:25 AM.]

Keith Cordell · Post by **Keith Cordell** » 13 May 2006 6:55 pm

I followed a couple of links and found out that the Stroh violins are being produced again, and are very inexpensive. There was a positive response to them from a group in Germany that specializes in performing 3 parts pieces with Stroh mechanics, and they seemed to endorse them as being quite good. Here is the site they sell them on. http://strohviolin.com/view_product.php?product=STR6407K1

Mike Simpson · Post by **Mike Simpson** » 13 May 2006 7:40 pm

Colin, the Stroh Guitar is very interesting... I have seen the violins before but I don't remember seeing the guitar. Very interesting how they chose to have a sort of rocker arm lever connect the bridge to the cone. I suppose that the idea behind that was to be able to adjust the amount of force applied t the cone independent of the string tension.

Those repro Stroh violins are interesting and if I could play the violin at $385 I would buy one... that's all I need, something else to learn.

Mike Neer · Post by **Mike Neer** » 13 May 2006 7:52 pm

I remember reading this from Paul Whiteman's "Memories of Wax" on the subject of Stroh violins:
The string section used "Stroh" violins, which were strange-looking affairs totally unlike the string instruments you know. The Strohs were little more than fingering boards, with a horn and tone box attached to the metal bridge. These instruments made raspy noises, like the sounds you used to get from one of the old-time phonographs with the "ear-trumpet" amplifiers, but they were more effective than ordinary violins in vibrating the stylus.

------------------
www.mikeneer.com

Mike Neer on MySpace

Dave Boothroyd · Post by **Dave Boothroyd** » 14 May 2006 12:45 am

Some of the problems with the tone of Stroh type instruments must come from the use of what is basically a simple cone shaped horn.
A cone does produce some acoustic amplification, but only over a narrow frequency range. You would really need multiple, horns with exponential flares to produce a full tone.
Well ether that or persuade yourself that the narrow audio bandwidth was the distinctive sound you were looking for - you know, a bit like resonator players do

!
Cheers
Dave

Colin Brooks · Post by **Colin Brooks** » 14 May 2006 3:15 am

Colin Mcc. I don't know where that guitar went. A possibility is the Horniman Museum in S London which has a very extensive instument collection.

I havn't been able to open the EMP clips yet so I still don't know what they sound like.

Andy Volk · Post by **Andy Volk** » 14 May 2006 6:03 am

Thanks for posting. Interesting info. The Boston Museum of Fine Arts had a Stroh guitar in their "Dangerous Curves - The Art of the Guitar" exhibit about five years ago. I'd be tempted to grab one of those repros too except that I can get something acceptable out of most any string instrument EXCEPT the violin.

Colin Brooks · Post by **Colin Brooks** » 14 May 2006 1:06 pm

I wonder if it would be possible to fit one of those repro Stroh violins with a guitarist friendly uke fretboard?

I remember seeing a Stroh style uke in an antique shop in the Victoria area of London c. 1970. It was £7.10 shillings. I had just discovered National guitars and ukes, even interesting ones, weren't desirable to me then!