The Steel Guitar Forum

Cabin fever is setting in.

I need a new toy.

What are your opinions on the 1950's Fender Champions? I've always thought these were very cool looking, but I've never played one. Tone?

Photo stolen from Rick Alexander's website. Thanks Rick!

The tone most reminds me of an old Telecaster using the bridge pickup. It's not the most versatile guitar, and it's pretty lightweight, but it can sound really great in the right circumstance.

The tuner buttons are often found to be disintegrated, like so many guitars of that era. Fortunately Fender used the exact same Kluson tuners that are avalable widely today. The metal cover over the pickup gets tarnished pretty easily. I've seen a few with a bit of rust as well.

So... no big fat Hawaiian tone?

I've played a couple, and they are very bright and aggressive- the pickups were robbed out of a lot of these for Telecasters.

I like these old Champions a lot. The price of all old Fenders has gone up so much that these have to be compared with guitars out of their class for $ vs features now and it is easy to point out weakness when comparing an MG to a Benz if you have to pay the same for both. Still there are a lot of steels that are not as good as these.

Gerald, I bought that Champion for $50 back about 1980.
It has a bright sound much like a Telecaster and it's a good player. Some of my first Steel tracks were recorded using this guitar - here's one from way back when:
HEAVEN OR HELL
You can hear the Champion mostly in the 2nd verse.

If you're buying one, it's important to determine if the pickup and the knobs are original. As Keith mentioned, these items are valuable and are often robbed to adorn Telecasters and then replaced with new ones. This devalues the guitar considerably.

Gerald, when I sat in with NYC band Hazmat Modine recently, their guitarist/steel player Michael Gomez played an early Fender Champion:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-dT1rlV9Ng

It's easy to distinguish its sound (and his playing ) from my mellow 1937 New Yorker.

Cheers,

Fred

I can see what you mean Fred.

The Fender is much more trebely. It would be great for blues or rock.

Not too Blue Lagoonish.

I've always made use of the tone control on my Champion. They put a tone control on them for a reason. Roll that tone knob back just a little and you'll find a sweet spot back there that sounds great and can be quite "Blue Lagoonish."

JP

Gerald,

My second lap steel, actually was my brother's was one of these very same steels. I thouight it was pretty cool but he sold it and I left non-pedal guitars for years. I think you would find a niche for it, Don't be afraid of the bright tone, just experiment around and come up with something different.

GOD bless!

Terry Wood

I borrowed one of those from Bobby Ingano on my first Hawaiian trip, because I didn't bring a guitar with me. It's a trebly guitar alright. I think if I had more time to fool with it more it would have sounded better.
I believe if the tone is adjusted more on the amp than on the guitar, it would sound better, since the amp tone control is usually after the pre amp stage, and doesn't seem affect the tone of the guitar as much. Hard to explain this, but give it a try sometime.

Gerald...

I hear ya, cabin fever.. ick.

You are holding that rick in your picture, that is all ya need, but I understand... I had three of those champions and they were all great little, guitars. I play a tele too and the tone fits my sounds well..

However, they all got sold off to buy rickenbachers.

They are great guitars that draw alot of money for what they are- excellent trade bait for later on!

good luck!

You have been spoiled by the tone of Rickenbachers GB Your EH150 would have a more mellow tone than the Fender.

Hey Gerald, have you considered a National? Maybe an early New Yorker. I really like my mid '30's 7-string model. Don't get me wrong, I like the Champion but the National is so "old" sounding and they are cheaper!
What sort of tone are you looking for?

A Bakelite tone without the negatives associated with a Bakelite guitar.

I want a big fat mid-rangey tone on a guitar that stays in tune, doesn't weigh 15 pounds and will not shatter when dropped.

Maybe one of the Fender Deluxe trapazoids might fill the bill.
Have you already tried or owned one?

Your bakelite doesn't weigh 15 lbs, it's only 8.9999999 lbs

I can bring my New Yorker to Winchester if you want to try it. They are beautiful sounding. It's a six, which is why I don't play it much.

Personally, I like the bright Fender tone. It really cuts through on the bandstand. I also like the bite of a Valco string-through pickup. I'm not a fan of 'bassy' tones in lap steels. Just my opinion.

Thanks Bill, I've never tried a National New Yorker before. Unfortunately I will not be at Winchester this year. This will be my second year in a row missing the event due to my "Artist In Residence" status at the Augusta Heritage Center's Swing Week! So... you will have to bring the guitar to Joliet.

edit

I just got into playing lap steel last fall, and just fell in love with it. I picked this up on ebay, and its about all I play now, well, that and a National Dynamic. Ive got mine tuned to open E, and primarily use it for blues. Very bright cutting tone. One of my better ebay experiances.

Gerald Ross wrote: I want a big fat mid-rangey tone on a guitar that stays in tune, doesn't weigh 15 pounds and will not shatter when dropped.

Some kind of Gibson with a P90 pickup (or a Charlie Christian type)? Or a modern lap steel with either of these pickup types?
Both the P90 and the CC are THE pickups for fat, warm, mid-rangey tones, the P90 being slightly dirtier, the CC slightly cleaner and more transparent.

Or maybe some modern two-pickup lap steel (since a neck pickup sounds fatter and warmer than one placed closer to the bridge)?

George, that mother-of-toilet-seat lap steel must kick butt!

I'm more and more beginning to think that tone primarily is in your hands. Yes, some pickups are brighter or bassier than others, but a good player can get a great tone out of most decent pickups.

I have a video of the 1998 HSGA Joliet Convention showing Ian Ufton playing the same model Fender lap that Dan Caudill showed above.

Ian got a very big fat Hawaiian tone out of it. No biting treble - a big rich bandwidth filling tone.

Hi Gerald,

I'm in agreement with you Gerald. After hearing players Jerry Byrd, Keyton Roberts, or pedal players like Mr. Buddy Emmons or Lloyd Green one would be inclined to think that they could play a washboard with a decent pickup and it would sound terrific!

GOD bless!

Terry