The Steel Guitar Forum

Nosing the bar up and down the fretboard of a nonpedal steel guitar, while searching for melody lines, is very essential to becoming a better steel player. It is the ultimate prerequisite for rising above mediocre levels of playing steel guitar. There are no substitutes for the training resulting from the advantages of bar movement. Putting new life into musical expressions, can be attained through regular practice without the use of pedals.

Bill: bet there are lots of us that never played any non pedal or lap steels in the beginning!
I started right out with a D-10 Shobud, it was probably 20 or so years later I fooled around with non pedal C6th. I think if you want to play badly enough you can get it on a pedal steel just as well as non pedal. I have been at it about 32 years & still love those pedals best!! Nothing here against the non pedal player, just ain't my thing!

Ernie

Amen..Bill

I pretty much started out on pedal steel and played nothing but for 25 years. About 5 years ago I took up non pedal instruments (lap and dobro) seriously, and I must say it improved my steel playing immensely. I found out that I had a 'lazy left hand' . Playing non pedal has improved my pedal steel playing considerably.

Dan,

Thanks, I couldn't agree more. That isn't to say that everyone will be inclined to knock the socks off from those who have avoided the Dobro option in their quest for improved playing. What it does do, that needs consideration, is promote a far more aggressive steel guitarist. The "hunt and peck" steeler is challenged from the very onset of deliberate searches for the note patterns that must be drawn upon in an instant. No more split pedals, or half raises, lowers, and full tones to rely upon. The 3rd, 4th, and 5th strings of the E9th tuning simulate the Dobro tunings. The upper ranges of open keys, can be a matter of choice. There will always be players who possess a sense of adventure, by tuning their instruments that will allow slight advantages to various musical arrangements. We must not forget that to gain something musically, by changing a standard tuning, one must consider what has been lost in the process.

I agree, Bill. I teach pedal steel players who want to learn to play in the 'Sacred Steel' style. One of the first exercises I give is to have them play an entire melody/solo on the 4th string (no pedals/knee levers). It's amazing the options that open up when a little 'lateral dexterity' is developed.

By "fooling around" with my little 8 string B6 non-pedal guitars,,,it has opened a whole new world of understanding of my uni psg!!!! Plus I had no idea of how much fun it would be,,,remembering those old songs,,and Texas swing,,,and Hank Sr.,,etc,,, the way it was when it started,,then I can go right over to the pedal and apply the same thing,,except THEN understand why and how convenient the pedals make it. Plus I have more of a tendency to "pick up" my little lap steels on a whim,,or spur of the moment,,that I wouldn't take the time to get behind my PSG. I think every PSG player should have a lap steel,,I mean start where our heros started,,,,,

I just mentioned a similar thing in the tab section: "Most C6 Pedal Steel playing does not involve pedals". These things do take time to learn. One thing I've noticed is that playing the lap steel is FUN!!!! and inexpensive.


Lap Steel Tab Post


Greg

One of the things I try to do is practice my e9th without pedals, so if I ever sit in with an unfamiliar copendant, or if a break a main pedal, I can still come up with something that will get me around the corner, so to speak.
For instance, there is a harmonized scale playing two notes at a time, on the first four strings.

I'm a firm believer in string values. The most desirable texture of the string's vibrations is dependent upon nearing its most sensitive pitch, when responding to the pick attack. The characteristic changes in vibrant tones seem to denote a new study as it applies to the preferred tunings of the Dobroists.

I started with dobro and switched to psg after frustrations with amplification. I got a carter starter and was blown away that I could play all my chords without moving the bar. after a couple thousand times playing with little or no bar movement I realized my playing sounded boring so I started moving in and out of the box endpoints(no peds to same chord ab down). Now I am trying to learn every chord in a key in all possible positions to put the bar movement back and open up more lever pedal combos to break up the sound. Otherwise every song starts to sound the same. But as to starting,,I was terrified to move the bar live, for fear I would not be dead on and all the listner would hear was out of tune slop while I got my bar under control.

Playing non pedal has improved my pedal steel playing considerably.

Me too. After many years of playing pedal steel, I discovered the joys of non-pedal a few years ago. Now I take my lap steel along to gigs and I'm having a lot of fun with it! There are tones in a lap steel that are not found in a PSG, that's for sure. Lap steel has forced me to 'ferret out' single note patterns and harmonies, using more bar movement and slants. That has absolutely helped my PSG playing. Now I find myself slanting the bar on pedal steel more often and playing more two note harmonies and single note lines without using the pedals.

It's also nice to have no detuning issues! No cabinet drop. That makes life a little easier.

Hey Doug,

Playing the best sounding lap steel ever made doesn't hurt, either. Actually, I like mine better (just like yours except with a Gibson humbucker in the neck position (great for those Derek Trucks sounds).

Andy,

It is assumed that you may require two strings in harmony to achieve melodic scales. This may be rather convincing, until the attention shifts to the beauty of the human voice of the gifted singer. Musically, nothing played instrumentally, can equal the single notes emanating from a beautiful singing voice. This basic truth would allow a very small percentage of singing voices to excel the perfection of a one note theory. There is something remarkable about single notes played on the Dobro, using different approaches to melody lines. It may be found that after racing to find triads, or two part harmonies, the singer's concept will escape notice. One pure tone can receive the same treatment, once the adaptation is accepted as factual.

I had my 6-string Tonemaster sitting in the closet for 15 years after buying

I pulled it out to get a feel for buying a D10 ShoBud/C6

Now I'm hooked on it - different vibe, even when copYing a Pedal/E9 sound

...& really helps bar movement on Pedal

(but nobody notices except me)

Brian,

In this world that thrives on competitive goals, one needs to attain a fearless drive to pick a target, and proceed in that direction. One must be forewarned that there are thousands of hopeful musicians, who are strictly closet players. You could say the same about instruments that have great value to collectors for resale. My point is; "Nobody notices but me" depends on whom is listening. It's very difficult to turn a deaf ear on music, even if it's not a preferred genre. Some of the better known dobroists will deliver powerful ego-shattering performances, with relative ease. Every effort should be made to convince oneself that all musicians were once at the same level of ability. It is only through seriously pursuing a dream, that makes success a possibility.

I have been playing my S-10 as an 8 string. I have it tuned to D9 without the chromatic strings. I have been playing it keeping both the A+B pedals down at all times (G6) and then detuning the 1st string down a 1/2 step to(f#). This provides an option to some large position jumps, gives me more minor, and maj7 chords. I have been playing lots of songs with two note harmony lines throughout. I am learning a lot. I do feel it has helped my very limited pedal playing, I seem to have a better note to string/neck position ref. Everything that I learn this way is still valid in 9th pedal playing.

I love pedal steel guitar, but I feel much more "locked in" on playing this non-pedal sytle.

Dan, I know what you mean about the English Electronics lap steel. It really growls!

An interesting activity that involves chance meetings with adept dobroists happens when adventure and excitement beckons a quiet abode. Attending Bluegrass Festivals has been popularized by the lure of brushing close to all levels of players. The practice of circulating amongst the small groups of players, who "wing it", while the general audiences gather in larger numbers; around those with special attractions. The featuring of impressive harmonies, technical acoustical guitar players, banjos, and by all means fiddles and Dobroists, will attract and assure a honeybee affect, before patrons move along. Of all the players that I met and listened to, one still stands out in memory. He played an older resonator guitar, Dobro style, and a large leather strap affixed the guitar securely in playing position. The strap was hand-tooled with "Johnny" written in attractive lettering. I met him at The Canaan Valley Music Festival about 25 years ago. I've often wished for another "chance" meeting with him.
He was extremely accurate, and established himself as a key player the moment he began to play.

Fred,

After a day of getting swamped with "Spam" mail, I was able to restore my faith in mankind by rereading your response. The mere mentioning of maj7 chords, and minors is proof that you are well within the ballpark of sound reasoning. It's too bad to see many of these posts fizzle, usually at the very moment that informative responses are included in the thread's premises. Thanks for sharing your current activities.

I played Dobro and non-pedal for over 30 years. I've only recently (about 3 years) been playing with pedals. I still feel more comfortable without them. Most pedal steel players can play entire melodies on the pedals and knee levers without hardly moving the bar. Having to move the bar around is a great exercise. You get a totally different sound by sliding the bar up five frets than just pushing the A and B pedals. Bill, I agree entirely.

Alan,

The fact that you've played nonpedal steel for 30 years is interesting. The majority of players, as you have stated rely on less bar movement by raising and lowering string tension, through a network of levers or pedals. The Lloyd Green style of playing combines a highly skillful maneuverability of bar slants, and pedal work. You alluded to one's ability to play entire melodies without moving the bar. This brings to mind interesting thoughts about Lloyd's reasonings, that include a tuning that excludes the 4th string lowered one half step, as 99% of steelies utilize. Still, his accuracy is without question, unexcelled, allowing him to be recognized as among a small group of elite performers. The point that I wish to state without reserve, is a tuning on the E9th neck, that excludes the 4th string lower, hampers the methodology, that you've made reference to. Of course, I'm referring to the possibility of working through entire melody lines, minus the benefit of bar movement! In fact, in actuality, (as a joke) you could "swipe" my bar, while I make visitations on the "break", and it would be possible to carry on without the use of a bar. If I had an inkling beforehand, that someone was cookin' up a ruse, to botch a good performance, I'd bring along a temporary moveable bridge that allows complete key changes, by sliding it beneath the strings. At that point a set of changes that will pull up virtually all chord positionings, makes it possible to play with one hand throughout the event. I have no intentions of parting company with my favorite bar, in the near future, which gives a better outlook, with brighter expectations. BTW, I've decided for some time that the 4th string lower IS the most prominent and useful change, of the E9th setup. Squelching concepts delivered here on this forum, is not my purpose. It's more of a baying of the hounds, once they pick up a fresh track to follow.

I am interested in learning to play, but don't know what is the best to start out on. Lap or Pedal?
And then what is a good brand to start on. How many strings should I start with 6 or eight? Don't have any idea what to pay for one.
I have been playing regular guitar,now for over 30 yrs, but have always fancied the idea of playing the steal.

Any and all information would be appreciated.
Thanks

Larry,

By all means, hook up with a pedal steel player, who like yourself, may play the 6 string Spanish guitar. Try very hard to locate a congenial musician in your community who would be delighted to get you started on both Dobro and pedal steel guitar. The choices are not limited to one single person's suggestions. This forum will help you every step of the way. The ultimate goal would be for numerous reasons, learn to play well on an instrument that is stable, meaning that it requires very little attention in keeping it tuned. The universal tuning mechanism is a must. Most name brands are listed on this forum. I practice three instruments daily, pedal steel, Spanish guitar, and Dobro, in that order. I hope that this a new beginning for you. The pleasures of learning to play the P.S.G. are many, and will carry over a period of many years.

Sonny Jenkins wrote:By "fooling around" with my little 8 string B6 non-pedal guitars,,,it has opened a whole new world of understanding of my uni psg!!!! Plus I had no idea of how much fun it would be,,,remembering those old songs,,and Texas swing,,,and Hank Sr.,,etc,,, the way it was when it started,,then I can go right over to the pedal and apply the same thing,,except THEN understand why and how convenient the pedals make it. Plus I have more of a tendency to "pick up" my little lap steels on a whim,,or spur of the moment,,that I wouldn't take the time to get behind my PSG. I think every PSG player should have a lap steel,,I mean start where our heros started,,,,,

What do you consider is a good brand of lap steel I am in the market for one, but no nothing about them
I would apprecieate your input