The Steel Guitar Forum

I may be able to play at the DairySteelShow in March, but the house band needs songs laid out in the NNSystem. The other option is bringing my own backup players, which may or maynot be possible. I am not familiar with it other than what I have seen on Bobbe Seymours web site. I am not a music major and mainly play by ear, so I would really appreciate any enlightenment on how this works and any learning curve involved. If I need 2-3 months to figure it out, the show is here and gone. I know many of you folks have lots of knowledge in this area.....so would be greatful for any help.

Thanks, Jim

James, check this out Click Here

Thanks Andy, I printed it out and it looks like it will help. Jim

There's also a book called The Nashville Number System which explains everything really well- it gets into things like codas, accents, rhythms, patterns, etc. You can get it from
Bobbe Seymour and Sam Ash music

This might help:

I'm curious about something in the link Andy provided.

Never having actually worked in Nashville, my knowledge of the Nashville number system is probably incomplete.

I am familiar with the music theory number system, and the fact that, in a major key, chord qualities are assumed to follow from the diatonic scale, i.e. I is major, II is minor, etc. in that system (and that often II, being minor, is written as ii).

The link explains the Nashville number system in that way.

But I was under the impression that in the "Nashville numbers" application of numbers, Arabic numbers are used, and all chord numbers on a chart are assumed to be major chords unless otherwise specified, as in 2m, #4dim, etc.

Could somebody of you Nashville veterans tell me if that is a mistaken impression on my part?

You can use either Arabic or Roman. I personally use Arabic numbers.
The beauty in the number system is really two-fold...
A number chart will work in any key, but more importantly, is that you learn to hear the changes.
While you might not be able to recognize a C to F change or an A to D change, for example, your ear can recognize and hear a 1 to 4 change...and so on.
That's the beauty of the number system, IMO.

Designations can be either way, e.g. a two minor can be notated as IIm or 2m - both are correct.

Thanks for the replies, guys, but my mention of Arabic vs. Roman was more of a parenthetical remark.

As I said, I understand the music theory behind the number system, but my understanding is that the so-called Nashville system is a simplified system originally developed for quick recognition in practical use in the studios, at a time when country music usually featured fairly basic chord progressions predominantly in major keys, but frequently employing major or dominant 7th chords on the II, III, and VI roots.

The point I was really asking about is whether it is the custom in the "Nashville number system" to assume that a number with nothing after it means the chord is major.

I'd like to know this so that, in the unlikely event I would find myself in a recording studio being handed a chart by someone who is using the conventions of the "Nashville" system, I won't have to either 1) ask if the 2 (or II) is supposed to be major or minor or 2) guess and risk playing the wrong one.

The link Andy gave has some really wrong info. Not his fault, just the guy that put it together has had some bad info. Nashville is this way:

Major unless otherwise specified.

Roman is acceptable, we just don't use it.

We typically use - for minor, + for aug, o for dimin, ( ) for a split bar, num/num for a different bass note under a chord, a small triangle for a maj 7th chord... just little shorthand things that have become kinda "standard."

James, If the songs are three chords and basic don't worry about charts. Just the unknown jazzier stuff. But it is still good to know numbers.

it is a very simple thing. No matter what key your playing in when you see 1---4---5, on the nashville number system, that is the note of that scale you are playing in. If you see a 2 that is the second note of that scale. Example: in the key of C, the scale is C_D_E_F_G_A_B_and back to C. If you count the notes to 4, starting with C, you have the F chord, The 5, is a G chord. On your steel from wherever you start the main chord at the 4 chord is 5 frets up and the 5 chord is 7 frets up from your root chord or what key your playing in. It is easy. Good luck.

Well if you are going to use a symbolic language. Why bother. Is it that much more difficult or is it just easier for the director/leader, kinda like quarterback.baseball catcher symbols

The nice thing about numbers, Robert, is that you only have to chart the song once no matter what the key. One only needs to know the key and play accordingly. If the key changes the chart stays the same. You just change to the new key and on you go with out rewriting the chart. If you are in G, and the song moves to A then everything moves a whole step.

Kind of like this:
1-4-5
G-C-D
A-D-E
B-E-F#

and so forth. Just the basics above.

I can't believe that a professional house band needs songs laid out in numbers. What happened to faking it. And following a lead or a melody. This business isn't that difficult. Or just get with the house band before going on, if there is any special chords played.I know a lot of country and bluegrass players cannot read a single note of music, but can follow anyone, whin reason. Keep picking.

Ronnie have you ever been in a house band for a steel show where the band is made up of players that are from three states and play together once every six months or so? The fellows that play in the house band for my show, the Quad Cities Show, and The Iowa Show, are pretty much the same. They are among the finest players I have ever met. The caliber of steel players on these shows is also one of the best I have heard. They don't just play The Other Woman, and that great old dinner song, A Way To Serve Five. So if they want charts they get charts. And no arguement for it.

I can't believe that a professional house band needs songs laid out in numbers. What happened to faking it. And following a lead or a melody. This

Even seasoned studio pros make up charts for the song before they do a take. Why? Aren't they good enough to just 'fake it' and follow your lead? Well, yeah, they probably are but if you want everyone to change to the next chord at the same time, instead of slightly after you, it's wise to tell them in advance what the next chord is going to be. Similarly if you'd like the bass player to walk up or down to that next chord, instead of just suddenly jumping to it when he realizes what it is, it's necessary that he know where he's heading.

Now, with stone country standards, lots of bands already know the tune and just need to know what key you want to play it in (as long as you don't try any tricky maneuvers). But if it's a less familiar song (such as one you wrote, for example!), you'd better give 'em a chart so they'll be in the right place, all together, at the right time.

Jim you are so right. Oh and don't chart on yellow paper with red ink. Under stage lights it disappears.

aT THE
SUNCOUNTRY jAMBORE, THESE GUYS HAVE BEEN PLAYING TOGETHER FOR YEARS, BUT THEY STILL USE CHARTS, it keeps everybody on the same page and timing is right.
I have a few sheets here from Chet Gibsons book if he needed it many more will ,he has been doing it with the best for years.
hARBOR lIGHTS, iT'S nOW OR nEVER IS NOT A 4 CHORD CHANGE. nOR IS MANY MORE SONGS THE BETTER PLAYERS USE IN SHOWS. Charts are a good idea.

ernie

Mikey, Thanks! That's what I thought.

When you're playing with a house band that may or may not know your tunes, the chart is not just a guide to the changes, it's the road map for the arrangement that that particular performer wants to do.

May not be the way they do it in Nashville, but I like to use Roman numerals for the root chord, and arabic numerals for additions to the chord. That's the way I learned it in theory classes, long before I ever heard of the Nashville system. And I agree with MD that the minors need to be specified. In country and bluegrass the II major and III major are used more than the IIm and IIIm. Sticking strictly to the "harmonized" diatonic scale chords is unnecessarily limiting, and frankly doesn't work for many songs.

FWIW
BIAB for Windows has a program called Audio Chord Wizard. Play an MP3 and it will write you a Nashville number chart. in seconds.

I love it

How about from CD?

Mike Winter, that is excellent. Exactly how I teach. I equate it to the multiplication table. It should be considered Steel Guitar 101.