Cant decide if i want to stay with open or closed cabinets

Gary Steele · From: Columbus, Ohio, USA

Why do you like one or the other???
Thanks, Gary

Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

Gary, you might consider the ones with the best resale value!
Smile

KENNY KRUPNICK · From: Columbus, Ohio

Open Back. Reason: Closed back increases bass response more than what's needed for steel guitar. E9th,or C6th.This is my opinion though. Very Happy

David Doggett · Posted 18 Dec 2007 8:04 pm

I've got some of both, and have come to the conclusion the best compromise is an open-back with a solid ply-wood back (not those flimsy cardboard ones Fender uses) and a small opening or slit. You get much fuller lows with good efficiency down there where it sucks your amp power, but it doesn't get as bassy as a closed back. Also, if you put the open back near a back wall, it helps spread the sound out. In a small club that helps fill the room without blasting the people right in front. And if you have to set your amp in front of some of the band (typically the drummer and bass), it helps them hear you.

Jonathan Cullifer · From: Gallatin, TN

Without ever owning closed back cabs, for those who like a bassy sound, I would imagine that closed back cabs would translate into lower power amps. Bass sucks a lot of power. That said, there's obviously a reason you don't see 15" speakers in closed back cabs all that often. 12" speakers are more often used in that capacity.

Larry Scott · From: Virginia, USA

this one sounds great

Bill Ford · From: Graniteville SC Aiken

These sound pretty good...BWs

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Fred Justice · From: Mesa, Arizona

Open back my man. The only way to go Very Happy

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William Fraser · From: New York, USA

I'm sure Mike Brown Has THE answer. My mid 70's session with 15"BW is open , but my Bass Amp same brand & vintage 2-15" is closed, I suspect it has to do with keeping an even sound,tighter, & avoiding rattling things behind you. P.A spkrs seem to be closed back as a rule also, Enlighten us , if you would,Mr. Brown Wink

Thanks, Billy Lee Fraser
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Bill A. Moore · From: Silver City, New Mexico, USA

An open back is called a dipole style enclosure, and is the least desirable for bass response. The sound emanates from both sides of the speaker, and low frequency is determined by the speaker. The next best bass response is a sealed enclosure, and the ammount of volume determines the loading effect on the speaker, and the low frequency response. The most efficient low frequency enclosures are port loaded,(maybe David has found this works with rear porting), but most times they are front ported in a specific volume box, with specific size and depth of the opening. These cabinets are generally built within the Thiel-Small formulas and deliver good response, and actually boosting watts in their specific frequency range. I am playing through a 2-12 cabinet that is based on a 4-12 EV design, and gives good response to 50 hz. The upper end is also great, as I am using the (now discontinued) EVM-12S speakers. I have not tried the 12L's, but I think they won't be as bright in the midrange frequencies due to their longer cone. Please understand that low E on bass is approx. 40 hz, and guitar is approx. 80 hz, so a steel (even the exotic tunings) will not need the lowest frequencies that a port loaded enclosure offers. Hope this helps.

Dan Tyack · From: Olympia, WA USA

Neither.

My absolute favorite is the THD 2X12" cab which is ported, but the port is an open strip on the back of the cabinet. It gives the on stage sound radiation positive of an open back, but the bass response is *much* better than any open back cab. It also doesn't have any of the 'boxiness' associated with closed back cabs.

Check it out:

THD 2X12" cab
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George Redmon · From: Muskegon & Detroit Michigan.

I use these from All Steel.com for my rack rig. And these only weigh 11 pounds!!

I had our good friend Tom from D2F covers make me a couple of dandy covers for these cabs to.

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

Use open back when you want to create a presence in a room. Use closed back when you want targeted output, like in the studio or when everyone on stage is miked and monitored.

Each has its place.
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James Quackenbush · From: Pomona, New York, USA

Closed back for a more direct tone, and open back for a more "open" sound ....More bass on the closed back, and less on the open back ....Have a small openning ( a slit ) (acts as a port ) on the back of the cabinet and you can simulate a little of both similar to a THD cabinet ...You get a bit of an open sound with more bass ....You could always make your cabinet back with various sized boards for various sized openings ...YOu could then pick the opening that best suits your ears ...Jim

David Doggett · Posted 21 Dec 2007 2:10 pm

There are some great looking designs of both types here: Hermida.

b0b has given the concise explanation of the different uses.

The full Thiel treatment for sizing cabinets is not really necessary for guitar and steel. We don't have notes down in the range where the big cabinet resonance compensates for the low end shoulder. The proper measurements for that leads to large deep cabinets like used for bass and PA speaker cabs. Those are just to big and heavy for guitar and steel needs. But the partial open-back (or closed-back with the port in back) in a smaller cabinet really does help to add bass efficiency to help out your amp. In addition, it adds a little more protection for the speaker than the typical wide open back of many guitar amp combos. And it can completely change the tone an amp.

I have a Peavey Delta Blues (30 watts, 1x15) that was way too trebly with it's stock wide-open back. I put a 1/2" plywood back on it that left a slit at the top for tube ventilation, and a slit at the bottom to allow access for cord storage. It was amazing how it thickened up the tone of the amp, and it also gave it noticeably more volume before breakup.

Dan Tyack · From: Olympia, WA USA

I've had ported closed back cabs built to Tiel specs, and didn't care for them. The goal of a Tiel cab is to provide flat frequency response, which (IMHO) is the last thing you want in a steel or guitar cab. The THD cabs are designed for a 'musical' frequency response.

David Mason · From: Cambridge, MD, USA

b0b hit it right, I would add that closed back cabinets give you a more consistent sound out of the front, and they even out room differences somewhat. However, I prefer to use my open back 112 Peaveys if I know the room and can fuss a bit with speaker placement in a corner or set a distance from the back wall. On a good day, I can typically use no electronic reverb at all if I can get the room humming happily.

Paddy Long · From: Christchurch, New Zealand

These babies have given me excellent service for the last 15 years or so !!

Ray DeVoe · From: Hudson, FL

Hey Paddy

I also am using a set like yours but mine are 1-15 E's. Yours looks like they might be 12" speakers verses the 15" models by the picture ?? I generally use these as my "on the gig" speaker cabs as they are very sturdy built and dont show much "wear".

I have found though that to my ears, a pine built cabinet is much warmer. I have 2 Rick Johnson cabinets which are copied after the model he uses for his "Steel King" bottoms when he splits the amp into a head and cabinet unit. These are a little deeper built and have no taper. I usually put one on top of the other in tight gig spaces.

I strictly use a Revelation, TC M300, Mosvalve 500 rack system when playing out with either of the above cabinet setups. A player can use just one cabinet with this setup but it does push the older 1501-4 BW power limit a bit and the second cabinet adds a lot of fullness to the sound. I figure that I always sit a speaker cabinet on something so it might as well be the second cabinet. Saves hunting for a chair or something in these clubs. Smile

Lets get to the bottom line though.

There are a lot of good sounding combo and rack system amps out there. There is no one amp / speaker combination that is the "ultimate" to everyone as the sound starts with the hands, playing skills, steel and finally, what the player's, ear hears.

It's Christmas Eve day and I hope everyone has a terrific and safe holiday season.

Ray DeVoe

67 + 69 Emmons D 10, P.P,s / Two - Revelation, TC M 300, Mosvalve 500 racks, / 15" BW cabinets.
Evans Fet 500 combo and Evans Fet 500 head.

[ Yes, Dave H and James Q.

I am down to 4 amps. !!! It only hurt for a little while Smile

!![/i]

That large collection of Webb and Evans amps and anything that used "power tubes", all found new homes.

T. C. Furlong · From: Lake County, Illinois, USA

I have spent a ton of time measuring, testing and listening to a variety of closed and open back cabinets in the development of my SPLIT self-powered cabinets. I have a boatload of prototypes, rawframes and "examples" tp prove it Oh Well

. Regarding Thiel Small parameters...I agree with Dave that they are not appropriate for guitar or steel and I would even go as far as to say the same for some bass styles (like Jaco Pastorius for one). A thought through design in either closed or open back is valid. The big problem is that most builders don't understand what it takes to do a good closed back design for steel. The main ingredient is the speaker itself. You can't put any old speaker into a closed back cabinet and expect the low or mid frequencies to sound musical. They won't. Correct porting is crucial and even more crucial is selecting a speaker that likes to be in a closed back cabinet. It took me forever to work all that stuff out.

The bottom line is that if done right, a closed back cabinet can sound fantastic, especially in the low frequencies. Open back cabinets can sound very good but in my experience, they are more dependent on room position and overall they tend to be a lot more "spongey" sounding, especially at louder stage volumes.

I agree with Dan T. that the THD design is a very good one (although too heavy for me). I did a lot of experimenting with the rear tuned port in my SPLIT cabinet. I ended up going with a ported closed back design that is precisely matched for the lightweight neo 12" that I use. That combination allows tight lows that are not at all overbearing, solid mids and smooth highs that are consistent in front of the cabinet. If you have ever played guitar through a Marshall 4X12 cabinet, you know the low mid "thunk" you can get that isn't possible with any open back cabinet. That's a pretty cool thing to have for steel, even when playing E9th IMHO strings 8,9 and 10 come alive.
TC

Paddy Long · From: Christchurch, New Zealand

Hi Ray - no they are Nashville E115's --- BW1501-4's.

I've had these since they first came out in the early 1990's, and now a Revelation Pre based rack !

Ray DeVoe · From: Hudson, FL

Hey Paddy

The cabinets are identical to mine then. I have only had my set for about 2 years now. They work well but I still like the pine constructed cabinets a little better.

No matter what, one cant go too far wrong when they start with an Emmons PP and a Revelation. Smile

I dont know if I want anything "too good" in these TN clubs anymore. I keep one setup completely "smoke free" as it never leaves my music room.

TN just passed a "no smoking law" in public places, short of clubs that have an over 21 patronage.

I played a couple of different clubs over the past 3 weekends and it seems that people now smoke twice as much "just because they can". It may be time to retire from the club scene and just play at home. I never smoked in my life and it's rough to handle.

Anyway, it's good hearing from you and happy holidays to you and yours. Smile

Enjoy that Revelation preamp. They are a "class act."

Ray DeVoe

67 + 69 Emmons D 10, P.P,s / Two - Revelation, TC M 300, Mosvalve 500 racks, with 15" BW cabinets.
Evans Fet 500 combo amp and Evans Fet 500 head

Jerry Overstreet · From: Louisville Ky

Gary, just a suggestion....build some removable panels to close in the backs of your present cabs. Then you can just pop them in and out to A/B them when you play out. My cabs are built this way. My experience has been open back units spread more sound on the stage. Probably less noticeable when miced through the FOH. You can have the option to or not to with the removable panels.

As stated above, Thiele/Small parameters may be loosley followed but are of lesser importance when building cabinets for musical instruments, particularly open back units.

Paddy Long · From: Christchurch, New Zealand

Ray, thanks mate yes they are pretty much bullet proof speaker cabinets. I drive my rack from a Zum and the sound is outstanding through this setup. We have had smoke free pubs and clubs for about 6 years now and it is so much nicer to play in this environment - I've never smoked either!!. My rack currently consists of a Peavey DPC750, Rev Preamp and TC-M300 - before the Rev I was using a Profex II.
I am thinking seriously of adding a Peterson Stroborack tuner as well.

David Mason · From: Cambridge, MD, USA

I have the exact same Peavey 112E's as Paddy, best speakers I ever had. Once you settle on one thing, the rest comes easier.... I will say, I don't think building a panel to make open cabinets closed is a real good idea, unless the cabinet and speaker are both initially designed for that. That's a great way to blow a speaker, not to mention potentially sounding awful. I have a couple of temporary particle board baffles in mine, but it's just to keep the cats out - once I start playing, somehow they're not interested in snoozing in there anymore?

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