something Jeff Newman said

[Phil Halton]

I was reviewing the Jeff Newman "Up From The Top--A&B pedals" video, where he basically shows 10 major chord phrases and 10 seventh chord phrases (among other things of course).

Something he said caught my ear that I didn't quite understand. He said that when playing a fill on the I or IV chord, play one of the phrases based on the major scale. And, when playing a fill on a V, II, or VI chord, play one of the phrases based off the seventh scale.

The part that threw me was the bit about playing seventh scale phrases against the II or VI chord. I don't know if he meant minor or major II and VI chords--he didn't specify.

But why seventh scale phrases against those chords? My brain's too fuzzy at the moment to try and figure this out and so thought I would ask.

By "seventh scale" he means phrases based off the mixalydian mode of the major scale--major scale played from the fifth tone to its octave (although he doesn't use that word).

[Ron Page]

Phil,

I just reviewed that one recently myself. I take it to mean (transpose and) play the 7th phrases against the II, V and VI major chords. Another course I have suggests that a II minor is almost always going to be a II minor 7th, and for that he says the steel should always play a IV. Extending that thought, we'd play the major chord phase against either a II minor or a IV.

Now I have to take what you said about the scale and go back and study those seventh chord phrases a bit.

[C. Christofferson]

Not having seen the lesson, this is a guess. He may be referring to using the seventh phrase to lead into the chord following the II, V, or VI chord, that is; II 7th on the way to a V, V 7th on the way to a I etc. Where does he go after the VI 7th chord and is he using the 7th phrase as a lead-in to it? As you may know, a seventh usually sounds good when youre going up a fourth from wherever youre at. Good luck.

[David Doggett]

I don't know if this was what he was talking about, but if you think about the scale of the key, the sevenths of the I and IV chords are accidentals not found in the key scale. But the sevenths of the II, V and VI chords are notes of the key scale. For example, in the key of C, the seventh of the C chord is Bb, an accidental; and the seventh of the IV chord is Eb, also an accidental. But the seventh of a D chord (minor or major) is C, the seventh of a G chord is F, and the seventh of an A chord is G. All those seventh notes are in the C scale. So by following Jeffs rule, you will always be playing fills using the notes of the scale, with no out-of-key clunkers. I think it is not so much that you have to use a seventh over the II, V and VI chords, but that you can safely do so; whereas, if you throw a seventh into a phrase over a I or IV chord, it might not sound right.

[Dave Diehl]

Jeff always told me that a 2 and 5 chord were actually musically correct played as a 7th. Therefore, if you're going to use the scale for either of those two chords, you should use the 7th scale.

[Joey Ace]

I think David's explanation is right on the money.

I attended many of Jeff's seminars.
He had a knack for presenting simple rules, that worked, but weren't explained.

Even now I can hear his voice in my head saying, "Never mind why it works, it just does.".

I never subscribed to that approach. I need to know 'the why' to totally absorb something.

I learned a lot from digging into Jeff's lessons, and figuring out why the rules were true, from a music theory perspective.

The 'no (or little)theory approach' obviously worked for Jeff, and most of his students. Different strokes for different folks...

[Chip Fossa]

Can any of you guys explain this in simpler terminology?

I, and I'm sure many more, get a headache when all these IV, V , IIV, XV come into play.

A seventh chord is a seventh chord.

One of those classical cats made a comment, years ago, in defense of his "dissonant sound", to the unenthused king, there is no such thing as a flat or sharp note - ie - That's why classical music has that peculiar oddity to it at times. It's way out of key or out of tune in relation to what we're talking about here. But...it's music, and great music at that.

What we're all trying to get at here, I guess, is how long you can get away with playing/holding a
"wrong" note, before it sounds crummy to yourself, or anyone within earshot.

As I grow and mature agewise and musically, I deliberately try to play "out of scale". And try to and see if it works.

You guys are missing some of the fun. Too afraid to make "mistakes". Ultimately, who cares?

You got to take chances, even if you don't really understand all the "rules".

Unless you're playing strict classical interpretaions - there really are no rules.

JMHO

[Alan Cook]

Some great explanations here, but no one has said WHY you should use the 7th scales or major scales. As Jeff use to say one of the steel players jobs is to create musical tension, the 7th scale gives you the opportunity to do this if played in the right place ie over the 2 and 5 chord. Also if you are playing a solo over a chord sequence with a 2 and 5 chord in there you can create tension over the 2 and 5 and release over the 1 and 4 or as Jeff would say vanilla one minute and strawberry ice cream with a cherry on the top the next.

Alan