Hula Dancers - Do You Have To Have Them?

Mat Rhodes · From: Lexington, KY, USA

For those of you who are actively playing live Hawaiian music: have you been able to do without the dancer? Or do most of your clients request one along with your combo?

Derrick Mau · From: Honolulu, Hawaii, USA

Hi Matt,

My group uses no hula dancers. It's not necessary to have one, but it's nice if you do. Occasionaly, one will stop by while we are playing and and ask if they can dance.

At the Moana Hotel, we have one for the trio, but they don't dance to every song. Hula dancers really draw attention, especially if there are more than one dancing. Noelani Cypriano plays for us on Saturdays evenings and she used to have three dancers. The girls would change into many different customs in between songs. This really bought in the crowds, but eventually, the hotel deceided they didn't want to pay for more than one dancer.

Don Kona Woods · From: Hawaiian Kama'aina

Jim Bates · From: Alvin, Texas, USA

Having been in a group for 13 years in Houston that played a lot of luaus with many dancers and floor shows, the dancers we had eventually wanted to be the "stars" of the show and therefore started demanding more money for doing less and less. Finally most of the dancers we used hired out on their own and used a cassette / boom box for their 15 -20 minutes of fame (or flame). Several of the dancers wanted more to perform a 20 minute floor show than the 4 or 5 piece band was paid. So, we let them go.

Recnetly, I have done some specialty Hawaiian 'luau' shows there where were no dancers and we only played a few Hawiian tunes/songs per set, rest of the time it was either country or rock. Times change.

Thanx,
Jim

Derrick Mau · From: Honolulu, Hawaii, USA

Hi Don,

I've heard they were paying the hula dancers about $80.00 each which works out to be $240.00 for 3 dancers a show; not counting the cost of paying the musicians . . .

The hula dancers really made a difference in the audience, but many just sat to watch without drinking. All of the other groups that perform at the Moana only have one dancer. After comparing the revenue, the hotel wasn't making more with 3 dancers than they did with only one dancer; so a change was made. Crying or Very sad

As I said before in another related thread, it's all about the numbers. That cash register must ring if anything good wants to remain.

Gerald Ross · From: Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA

The audience has a responsibility to the venue as well.

An audience member must purchase food or drink during a performance. That's the cost of occupying a table. You can't expect a restaurant or bar to lose revenue on non paying customers or customers who drink only ice water.

Even if there is a moderate cover charge, the audience member must still "pay the piper" in the form of food and drink purchases.
_________________
Gerald Ross
'Northwest Ann Arbor, Michigan's King Of The Hawaiian Steel Guitar'

A UkeTone Recording Artist

CEO, CIO, CFO - UkeTone Records
Gerald's Hawaiian Steel Guitar/Ukulele Website

Derrick Mau · From: Honolulu, Hawaii, USA

That's the problem we've been having for years. People taking up our tables and not having anything, so when the real paying guest arrive, they have no place to seat. We now have a 1 drink minimum at the table but as soon as we chase away someone that doesn't want to have anything, another one comes by. It's a never ending battle.

Gerald Ross · From: Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA

There used to be a great bar/restaurant in Lansing, Michigan that showcased live Roots music. Blues, bluegrass, Swing, etc.

They stopped having music because on many nights the music they presented attracted a non-drinking, organic food eating crowd. The crowd would stay all night, dance and have a good time while ordering glass after glass of ice water. The crowd was not interested in chicken-fingers and beer.
_________________
Gerald Ross
'Northwest Ann Arbor, Michigan's King Of The Hawaiian Steel Guitar'

A UkeTone Recording Artist

CEO, CIO, CFO - UkeTone Records
Gerald's Hawaiian Steel Guitar/Ukulele Website

Derrick Mau · From: Honolulu, Hawaii, USA

I wonder what happened to the cover charges that used to apply at the Waikiki hotels? I remember back in the 70's, you had to pay a cover of $5.00 or $10.00, plus a two drink minimum. It was a good idea because the cover-charge went to defray the cost of the musicians/performers.

I used to go to see Loyal Garner at the Canoe House at the Ilikai and it cost me $20.00 back in the late 70's for cover-charge and drinks for one show. When you sat down the waiter took your order for the two drinks and collected the money on delivery. Now, you can't have two drinks at once as the Liquor Commission created a law against stacking drinks in Hawaii.

Todd Weger · From: Safety Harbor, FLAUSA

Gerald Ross · From: Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA

Derrick Mau · From: Honolulu, Hawaii, USA

Hi Todd,

Look at what a rock concert ticket is going for today.
Back in the 70's, I got to see the Stylistics, Al Green, War, Tower of Power, Steely Dan, Elton John for cheap.

Tickets were $4.50 for the top level, $5.50 for the middle loge, and $6.50 for the ground level closest to the stage! Whoa!

Bill Creller · From: Saginaw, Michigan, USA (deceased)

Gee whiz, maybe the new name will be hula-bitches Very Happy

Ron Whitfield · From: Kaaawa, Hawaii, USA

Oooooh, I'd like to be a safe distace away when you suggest that to one personally!

seldomfed · From: Colorado

We have clients that ask for hula dancers sometimes. Normally we just book the band. But we always ask if they want hula. It can sometimes sell the gig. Our band is based in Colorado, and we're very lucky to have some excellent halaus here that we are able to work with. So far we've been able to structure shows that meet the needs of the client, band and dancers.

We appreciate the competition here because it raises visibility of Hawaiian music, therefore more gigs. We're also lucky that we're the only Hawaiian quartet in a 600 mile radius with with steel! Smile

There are some other excellent Hawaiian musicians here and we're friends, but no steel except in Book 'em Danno.

With the hula dancers, sometimes we 'trade' services with a halau - we'll play for a lower rate for them (and ono grinds) for a halau fund raiser or whatever, and they'll reciprocate at a gig for us. It let's us work together and rehearse real-time. Then if we get a good paying private party job, we all make out.

Generally we can command somewhat higher rates for gigs because we're a specialty act here on the high plains of Colorado. It's just supply and demand. Our downside is that the demand isn't that high for luau music in the dead of winter! Smile

We can't play every week like bands in the beechy places. So I suppose it all averages out.

We've worked hard to learn lots of the more popular meles for hula, and have gotten pretty good at working with dancers, learning hula structure etc. It's a challenge, really fun, and I feel lucky to be able to learn this stuff where I live.

re: pricing...
Normally we quote the band and dancers separate. The halaus have their own rates. They do their own shows with backing tracks. We do our own shows. So, we quote a package price with line item detail. If it's one flat fee from an event - we usually all split it equally.

I learned something a while back from a long time pro - who said that no matter what you charge, the acceptance rate for gigs is the same. (or nearly). You'll get as many 'yes' answers as 'no' when you quote a gig. Clients are fishing when you get a call - the client may want a DJ, or whatever. SO - the point here is, always charge what you think you are worth, and charge the going fair rate, or a little more for your type of gig, and don't undercut just to get a gig. If they say "I need to check with my committee" or "boss" after you quote a price - just wait. You'll get a call back more often than not, and then you can negotiate if needed. And have a miminum price in mind (Negotiation Skills 101), and be ready to say "no, we can't do it".

Bands that roll over and take low pay just to get the gig ruin the business for everyone else in the area and set low expectations. Most likely they have a good day job and 'just play for fun' - that's fine if you want to play for fun, but it sucks if you under cut. Play for fun in your living room, but charge a fair price for music performance in public!

I understand that if you are trying to break in to a scene you have to play 'benefits', and play low dollar gigs etc. , that's ok for awhile. But at some point you are 'in', then realise that you are providing a unique service, you have value, and should expect to be compensated for it.

I stopped playing for free long ago. The thing I always hate to hear the most from a client is "we don't have a lot of money, but it will be good visibility for your band". Organizers of events or benefits have a budget - they pay the venue, the caterers, and the beer-tenders, and they can pay you. This isn't the same as giving the gift of music to friends in need, or a nursing home on a Sunday afternoon - I'll do that with an open heart. But the big things like United Way or whatever have a budget - so use it, even if it's only $100 a player.

There are always exceptions. It's nice to have a 'residence' if you are a musician. ie. a place to play regularly so people see you and get to know you - visibility is key!. Play for drinks and phood on a Tue. nite at some local joint. But when you get a weekend gig, or a private gigs - you can quote the going rates for your area.

Derrick, thanks for the insights about your area. We don't have the hotel scene here so I don't know how hard that would be to deal with. It must be hard to get the value up for live music within that structure. Like you said, "it's all about the numbers..."

aloha,
chris
_________________
Chris Kennison
Rhythm Cats - steel, guitar, banjo, dobro
Gold Canyon, AZ
www.rhythmcatsshow.com
www.seldomfed.com

Derrick Mau · From: Honolulu, Hawaii, USA

Chris,

You raise some interesting points. One of my groups used to partake in benefits; we did that for 3 years playing for free. The people running the event said the same thing, "Great exposure for you guys".

We finally realized that benefits just benefitted the events we were playing for and never really lead us to other paying gigs. When we considered our time, gas, and hard work of setting up and breaking down the equipment, it wasn't worth it.

It's funny how all these people come to you with all these exciting propositions and telling you how great your group sounds, but the moment you mention money, you never hear from them again.

Garry Vanderlinde · From: CA

Todd Weger · From: Safety Harbor, FLAUSA

Wow!

Gary, that hula girl GIF on the bottom of the classic vintage pinup by Gil Elvgren was a GIF I created about 4 years ago! I've since seen it in a variety of different places all over the internet.

Cool

_________________
Todd James Weger --
1956 Fender Stringmaster T-8 (C6, E13, A6); 1960 Fender Stringmaster D-8 (C6, B11/A6); Custom-made 25" aluminum cast "fry pan" with vintage Ricky p'up (C6); 1938 Epiphone Electar (A6); 1953 Oahu Tonemaster; assorted ukuleles; upright bass

Gerald Ross · From: Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA

So, here's a question sort of related to this thread.

When you play a gig with a band - do you all split the money evenly?

My experience here has been yes. We split evenly but give some extra bucks to the musicians who have to travel (gas money etc) or money to the musician who worked on setting up the gig (long distance charges, a few extra bucks if there was a lot of work involved pre-gig).
_________________
Gerald Ross
'Northwest Ann Arbor, Michigan's King Of The Hawaiian Steel Guitar'

A UkeTone Recording Artist

CEO, CIO, CFO - UkeTone Records
Gerald's Hawaiian Steel Guitar/Ukulele Website

seldomfed · From: Colorado

ya, we split it even. In one band, the guy that hauls the trailer with the PA uses his pickup. It eats gas. So for longer drives we usally pitch in and give him $10-20 each depending on the distance.

At this point in my life, everyone has their own PA etc., so we're often using each others stuff for gigs. My small PA for little places, the other leaders big rig for outdoors etc. So we just share equip and avoid the dreaded 'band fund'. I'm also lucky that everyone works equal - helps load in and out etc. - no prima donnas or 'stars'

And of course when you play for businesses or city governments, or parks and rec etc. the new laws regarding immigration require a shit load of paperwork. So I now have to get 1099's from every player, pay them by check from a separate account, and do W-2's at the end of the year. So splitting equal just keeps things simple! No questions from the accountant Smile

seldomfed · From: Colorado

ahh, 'dung load', guess there are autobots scanning for the FCC bad words here. Forgive me for the slip of the tongue, I should know better.
chris
_________________
Chris Kennison
Rhythm Cats - steel, guitar, banjo, dobro
Gold Canyon, AZ
www.rhythmcatsshow.com
www.seldomfed.com

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