The Steel Guitar Forum

the steel i have at the moment has 3 pedals & 1 knee lever. the knee lever changes the2 string to D & the 8 string to Eb. seems strange to me, but i'm new to this. does anyone know where i can get some good instruction books for this set up? i feel very lost in the land of E9th chromatic tuning, i have played bass for most of my life. please help i'm begging.

Dion, there is none. Today's standard is 4 levers. At a minimum I would say that you have to lower your 4th 1/2 aslo besides the 8th. You need a guitar with more knee levers. I think that you will learn faster also.

Sorry I can't help regarding instruction but if it gives you any peace of mind, that setup is not odd. As you have probably read numerous times, one knee lever is severely limited. But it doesn't mean that you can't make a lot of music on that guitar (the advice that you likely would have received---from myself as well as others---regarding whether or not to buy the guitar is kind of moot now that you have it).
You can go around in circles discussing what to do with a single knee lever. What you have is one of the original answers. It's not an oddball.
Hope you get some advice regarding instruction.

Dion,

There is alot of instructional material for 3pedals & 2 knees. Most of that features a knee for lowering the E's & one for raising the E's.

Perhaps someone down there could help you make a knee lever. I'm sure that there are a few good metalworkers/machineshops down in your section of KS.

If you can get your guitar setup 3X2, there;s enough instructional stuff out there to keep you busy for a lifetime & then some!!!

Casey

the steel i haveis on loan from my church so no money lost. just trying to get things figured out. tho 3 peds & 1 knee is still more steel than i can handle, well so far.

Dion:
This might get you started:
http://www.steelguitar.com/resource/vid ... tring.html

Winnie Winston's book is written for your tuning.

http://www.amazon.com/Pedal-Steel-Guita ... 082560169X

Sooner or later you will want more knee levers. but Winnie's book will get you started for now.

Dion, You have all you need for a good while, I have several videos out that will teach you most all of the things that have been recorded in the past many years on your guitar. I have been playing all over Nashville with a '69 emmons guitar with NO knee levers and no one can tell without getting under it and looking for them. Your guitar may even have one to many on it! Ha!.
I just played three major steel conventions on this "no knee" guitar and no one ever knew it had no knees. This was at three major steel conventions!
Kevin Hatten, you heard me in Ashtabula OH. on the Bigsby with no knees, I hope you did, you were playing drums, and VERY WELL TOO I might add! Sounds like I'm always picking on you Kevin, but no, I'm not. You are a smart guy, I just need to show you how to play without knees! It's all there!

I can show Dion a lot of great things to play with what he has, ask Randy Beavers, Billy Robinson, and many players what can be done with no knees, one knee or two knees. Knees are a convienience, not a necessity. (a crutch?) I prove it every day, Dion can too with the right instruction.
Actually, to many knees can be a confusing factor in the beginning, learn to play the steel, then add knees as you can learn what they do.
Kevin, you are still my good buddy, but we can argue forever and I'll still apreciate you like always! Like a brother!

Go gettum' Dion!
Bobbe "no picks or knbees" Seymour

Dion, check some of my "Bigsby" clips on "You tube" and see what you can play without knees, click on the triple neck Bigsby pictures, especally "Tennis Shoe Waltz", and some other slow country clips. This guitar has no knees, I'm not using finger picks and the guitar was built in 1960 and is totally original, NO KNEES!

www.youtube.com/bobbeseymour

Dion when I first started to play the pedal steel I did not even think about what the knee levers did for at least 4 or 5 months. I was too busy trying to figure out what the 3 pedals did and how to use them

Bobbe Seymour can make a two string, one pedal steel guitar sound like a harp. Thats a fact. I think from a beginners stand point you need more knees. At least one more. He's right though, there's alot right there, but to me loweing the fourth string along with the eighth is a must.

What brand of steel is this guitar? It may be easy to add the lower to the 4th string. Can you post a few pictures? We'll help if we can

Although I certainly would agree that there is a lot you can learn with a 3+1 config, I would just step back from the comment that this is all you need for awhile.

Many times we look at these Instruments as a Mechanical Beast 1st and a Musical Instrument 2nd. Not the case, this is a Musical Instrument first and foremost and the ADDED items such as another 3 or 4 Knee levers are there for the purpose of expanding your Musical journey and education.

Those little pesky things hanging under the Guitar are pretty valuable I would say.

1 is good, 2 offers more than 1, 3 offers more than than 2, 4 offers more than 3 and 5 offers more than 4.

On a 6 string Guitar, it is all there the day you bring it home, Clapton, Benson, Montgomery ,Van Halen etc...all you gotta do is determine a direction and study.

On our Instrument, 3+1, it is NOT all there, you have to add many of the combinations of pulls to get to where you are heading.

But I would agree that there is a lot of music on the 3+1 config and you have to start somewhere.

When you are playing a Piano or 6 string Guitar, you have the option to ADD something with your fingers as you play out of different positions...

With the Steel, many times that option comes with an added pull on a Knee Lever, they are part of the big picture whether you use them or not.

I agree that Dion needs more knee levers, but the question that was asked was what instruction material is available for 3 and 1. The answer is Winnie Winston's nook.

Dion, you need to get a guitar with more knee levers as soon as possible. At least 3 of them, preferably 4 or 5.

Herby Wallace did a great job of putting a great course together a few years ago while he was doing stuff for the Emmons Guitar Co. with "How to Play Pedal Steel Guitar on the E9th Chromatic Tuning".

Herby only used 2 pedals and 1 knee lever. Great arrangements, especially "Buds Bounce and Danny Boy".

I started with '3 and 1', and I think that helped me understand the basic tuning. I had to look harder for the stuff that is now much easier with our 'standard' 4+ knee-levers and, in the process, learned to think laterally.

A good example would be Brumley's solo on 'Together Again'. It's pretty easy with the A pedal and the 'B to Bb' lever, but there was greater sense of accomplishment when I figured it out with just two pedals and some bar-movement.

Needless to say, though, I love the potential of my current set-up; I just think there's value in learning with a basic lay-out.

By the way - didn't Jeff Newman's old 'Sho-Bud Pedal Steel Guitar Course' (1969, I think) deal with just 3 + 1?

RR

Hey Dion, if you can Jeff Newman use to have a course for the 3 pedal 1 knee student steel guitar one for country and one for Gospel with enough songs and learning to last you a while, contact Fran Newman at Jeffran college which was Jeff Newmans steel guitar college and see if she has any of these courses still available, also Bobbe seymoure has great courses as well.

I'm going to guess that your guitar is a Sho Bud Maverick from the 3/1 set-up you have.
Sho-Bud had an entire set of books for that exact set up. Those or the Winnie Winston book will get you going.
JE:-)>

Thanks Johnny for posting that u-tube link..i also have an 8 string 3+1.so watching that link helped me a lot..James

The Online Steelers website shows 16 players in Kansas, with possibly many more who aren't even listed. Find someone who can play, and they will show you more in one day than you can get out of a book in a month. Like Bobbe says, there's a wealth of music to be learned without even using knee levers. Learn to play what you have, and then think about adding more!

The New Sho-Bud Steel Guitar Course is available from Scotties and is specifically for the 3 & 1 set-up you have

Tony Prior, I have an idea! Lets put thirty knee levers on our guitars and we can all play everything immediately! With a knee lever for everything, we wouldn't have to learn anything but how to push a lever! Or we could just buy a player piano, or a just buy a CD of some one already plying, NO! Levers are for licks, I prefer music. (overstated possibly,I like three knees, but unfortunately, I was only born with two)

Thank you Kevin Hatten, I want all to know about your Steel guitar case company too! You are doing the steel world a service. You are a great friend Kevin.

Los Bobbster

Good opportunity to learn your slants! Then you'll appreciate the option of going to knees vs using slide and pedal dynamics. don't you guys think it better to learn more bar technique, positions and how to slide into them before relying on the knees? I learned on a dobro first, no knees OR pedals. I was happy to be able to hit the a pedal and get a full minor chord!:D

Bobbe Seymour, ( my friend)

I was only commenting to the statement we hear all the time..

"thats all I need for now"

Is it not possible to study only 3+1 on a 4+5 Steel..

????

still having fun..
tp

ps..


Bobbe, I can't wait to see your 4 cylinder C5 'Vette's.

Jeff Newman's first course in the "Up From The Top" series is "The A & B Pedals"; no knees required. Now, he was expecting the student to advance beyond that, so the course for 3 and 1 may be a good choice as well.

Fran still sells Jeff's instruction courses at JeffranMusic.com.