The Steel Guitar Forum

I love the steel guitar, whether pedal or non-pedal, but I'm searching for some answers.The Hawaiian steel and the Nashville steel do not sound the same. What are the tricks and techniques that makes Hawaiian players smooth and graceful? I've observed Hawaiian players always play the melody while most Nashville players use runs and backup fills, but it is more than just that.
To me this could be an informative thread. Thank you. Chaz

Well......Chuck,
Your going to get a lot of input on this
thread I'm sure. So I am not going to try
to say it all. However, there is a smoothness
developed by just the sliding of the bar. The
Hawaiians slide the bar a lot all through
their songs, not just at the ending. Then
there is the bar tremolo, a wavering of the
bar back and forth. With that you don't have
to hit the fret perfectly because your ear
will interact with the hand to correct any
misalignment, and the tremolo averages the
frequencies to enable the ear to tolerate
overall tone.

The picking can be smoothed out by placing
the hand down the neck more toward the bar
increasing the melloness.

Some players make the mistake of attempting
to play harmony on every note of the song.

If you can get a recent recording of Bud
Tutmark you will enjoy the beautiful
Hawaiian sound...all played single string.
Aahh but what technique and intonation.

Finally practice noodleing around from string
to string with the ball of the bar front to
back..back to front.

I'll leave you with that. I'm sure more will
follow.
Maurie

Great question: Hawaiian steel players for the most part take full advantage of their style of playing,,,the hawaiian steel guitar did not consist of pedals,,,they use and still use more natural techniques that are not used in todays "nashville" or country sound,,,,example ,,,palm harmonics,,finger harmonics,,,swells with volume pedal or volume control on the guitar,,,the "shading" is swaying like a palm tree,,,almost like a cool breeze going through the trees and the sound of the waves breaking on the beach,,,ya gotta think that way,,,the bar technique tilting the round part of the bar rather than holding the bar straight out I can name four players who have a great natural hawiian technique that have pioneered the steel guitar into western swing as well as their great ability for a sweet yet graceful sound,,,and hawiian "hot as well,,,and they are Jerry Byrd,Herb Remington, Ron Ely (great player) and last but not least the imcomparable Joaquin Murphey,,,those four have it down "pat" yet still maintain the overall sound of a complete steel guitar sound,,, I would like to refer to them as "hawaiian influenced: another great one that comes to mind was Fred Tavares,,,great steel player who was hawaiian,,,yet did much work with Tex Williams Foy Willing "riders of the purple sage" (no not the current group) he was famous for his disney cartoon slide's on Donald Duck cartoons,,,sure you have heard that,,,,no pedals on any of the above players,,,and they took full advantage of a "dis -advantage" by not having pedals,,,they played "natural" beautiful steel and showed the instrument to its original beauty,,,ask Scott DeWitt he may put a comment on this,,,hope this 2 cents worth makes some sense,,,listen to NoPeddlars allowed and hear what John Ely does with a non pedal guitar with a true hawaiian flavor,,,you can hear the palm trees and smell the salt air ,,,hey gimme another coconut drink,,, Aloha

I will give you just one example of what makes a Hawaiian style player sound different than what a western swing player or a nashville players does.

The tuning is C6:

You are going from a minor third picking strings 3 and 4 (2 and 3 when the 1st string is an E) to a major third.

A western swing player will mute strings 3 and 4 after picking them, move the bar back two frets and pick strings 2 and 3 (1 and 2 if you have an E as the first string).

Hawaiian type players will do it this way:

They will remain on the same two strings and slide/slant up two frets without muting the strings.

Try it.

This is just one example, but it typifies the basic difference. The other posters have also hit on other differences.

Jerry Byrd once told me that he practiced as a youngster for years trying to play entire songs without changing the first string(s) he picked or string grips. Again try it. The ability to slide from one interval to another versus muting and changing strings (and possibly grips) makes all the difference in the world when it comes to getting that Hawaiian sound.

God bless you all,

carl<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by C Dixon on 10 March 2001 at 07:47 PM.]</p></FONT>

Great question! If you shut your eyes for just a moment...lean back and relax, and visualize the white sandy beach, the sound of the surf in the background, the swaying of the coca palms and the unmatched gracefulness of the hands/arms with the changing facial expressions (mouth & eyes) along with the constant movement of the hips....of those hula dancers before you, you can better appreciate what makes the Hawaiian Steel Guitar sound so rich, unique and wonderfully beautiful. The bar(hand)closely matches that gentle and constant
"movement" of the hula dancers and the beautiful voices that sing from the heart. No hot licks! No speed runs! No fuzz! Just basic, voice like movements of the bar hand. Whether on one string or multiple strings....that steady flow of SMOOTH sound; no muting; no sticatto; from low notes to high notes, without any breakes in the melody line.
Another factor to consider: Most Hawaiian songs have many, many chord changes, minors, augmenteds, diminishes, etc. The strong but soft rythmn section highlights those changes which in turn, highlights those melody lines of both vocalist and STEEL GUITAR! No 3 chord bangers here; no electrified drums; and no screaming electric guitar! Expressions of natures beauty (flowers, waterfalls,ocean surf, happy people), love and living are what those songs are about. The steel guitar focuses on those elements.

------------------
<small>Ray Montee-email: mraymond4@qwest.net

Yes, this is certainly an interesting topic -and one people have debated for a long time.
I think that you're right on the money, Ray, about the importance of nature to Hawaiian music as well as the fact that traditional Hawaiian guitar playing is an extension of the Hawaiian vocal tradition. Technically speaking, Hawaiian steelers will usually go for a position of greater difficulty vertically up or down the neck in order to maintain an unbroken sound. The very personal and libral use of vibrato by most island players is another trait. Here's what some other folks have said on this topic:

ALAN AKAKA:
"The Hawaiian style of playing is a feeling - an emotion that is nurtured throughout one's life. It's from being part of the Hawaiian musical culture. In order to play in the Hawaiian style you have to live, eat, and drink Hawai'i." ..."If you were to compare a Hawaiian vs a non-Hawaiian playing, the style of approaching the same composition would be dissimilar. Attaclks, phrasing, and glissing would be different"

JERRY BYRD:
"One outstanding thing (at least to me) that is heard in all Hawaiian style playing is their single string work, and the liquid movement of the bar hand that blends one note to the next, with no gaps in between. I've come to define this as the "p-tah" sound. Added to bar movement, rather than staying on one fret strongly, imitates the Hawaiian falsetto voice break." ... "This technique is vital to playing Hula vamps".
So to me, playing Hawaiian is playing your feeling, not what someone else has done, altogether."

Hi Andy & Ray,,,you guys are right on,,,,get those plane tickets to Hawaii,,,Im ready to go right now IM SOLD never heard it put so good,,,,I knew I was missing something the 3 plane tickets too,,,,,,

Jody I don't mean any dis-respect, but where is the dis-advantage of not having pedals ? Non-pedal steel is my instrument of choice. I think the tone is much different when playing the same songs on pedal steel. I love the challenge of three and four fret bar slants, (forward or back) and the excitement of learning a new tuning.
Jody,If I ever see you at the Steel convention in my home town of St.Louis, the coconut drinks will be on me.

Another slant to this is....since the human voice was always the FIRST instrument in any culture and the instuments came along later, it makes sense that the instrumentalists would try to copy the style of the vocalist. If you listen to Hawaiian singers, they have a wide and fast vibrato and often sing in falsetto. The Hawaiian sound on Steel contains the same characteristics, that is, fast and wide vibrato and the use of harmonics which emulate the falsetto.<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Mike Ihde on 17 March 2001 at 10:40 PM.]</p></FONT><FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Mike Ihde on 17 March 2001 at 10:41 PM.]</p></FONT>

I like to hear the Hawaiian Style with a Roy Wiggins ting-a-ling mix then you have Hawaiian thats a little different.Keep in mind that there were many individual styles in the early days of Hawaiian recordings.I bought 20 Hawaiian tapes from Cord international that have many styles of playing on them.Brother Oswald was taught to play by a Hawaiian player.His style of ting-a-ling was copied by a Nashville kid Little Roy Wiggins.Little Roy made it all his own.Os and Little Roy play it their way but it goes back to Rudy Waikiki whose playing Os emulated.See The Encyclopedia of Country Music compiled by the staff of the Country Music Hall of Fame and Museum and the story in Don't Say Aloha by Bashful Brother Oswald on Rounder CD 0080.

I took lessons as a kid from a Hawaiian
in California back in the forties and most of you guys are right on! Lots of single string, slants, and tremalo. The feelings come from your hands including the bar hand. You use very little expression pedal
as at most, you would increase the volume knob with little finger mostly at the end of a song. Sometimes you will group pick 3 notes, but not too often. Playing with only 6 strings makes one concentrate more on the feelings one puts into the song! The pedal steel (for me) requires more concentration
on hitting the right strings(12 strings) pedals/ levers and when you master that, then
you try and put feelings into the song. The pedals do allow string bending for that country sound!

Found this in the archives. Ironically with recent interest in 'Hawaiian Style Steel' being discussed a lot here lately, (by our friend Roy Thompson and others) I thought this old thread was worth renewing for those like me (who never get enough of it) and love 'Hawaiian'... Aloha! dan

Dan, thanks for reviving this thread-some great posts!

There have been discussions in the past regarding the lack of steel guitar played on the Islands these days. I don't know what the deal is, perhaps the younger Hawaiians consider it "haole" music and it's uncool? You can still find some fine slack key players, some great uke players, and outstanding falsetto singers over there, but its hard to find steel, though I haven't spent any time on Oahu-where I think there are more steelers.

In the past three years we have vacationed on Maui and Kauai, and couldn't find any steel guitar. But when you're sitting on the beach with the tradewinds blowing, you can really feel the whole vibe of where the music comes from. I think if one is going to play some Hawaiian steel, then a trip to the Islands is mandatory-it's the only way to really get it!

------------------
Mark

"I think if one is going to play some Hawaiian steel, then a trip to the Islands is mandatory-it's the only way to really get it!" Mark
***************************
Exactly, Mark, I've been fortunate enough to make Wailea Maui (a wanna-be 2nd home) over the years and have found a few 'locals-real-Hawaiians' who both love, and play the steel, even a few who have an interest in teaching it to the 'youth' to keep it alive in the Islands. You don't find them in the clubs or resorts usually, they stay 'upcountry' away from tourist hangouts. Saturdays at the Bailey House museum grounds in Wailuku, some of the old timer (steel and slack key players) still gather to teach youth and just 'play' It is worth the time to take in anytime you're there! Aloha, dan.

Something I have noticed which often happens at conventions...any number of steelers can sit down to the same steel and amp ... no two will sound identical. I think it comes from the left hand (vibrato). Some have a slow vibrato, others very rapid while others have wide or narrow vibrato. Many pedal players never use vibrato at all. The steel only moves from one position to another which often causes them to sound alike. JMHO of course.

Good points made! I collect Hawaiian 78 rpm records. One thing that always comes across to me, even on the crazy fast stuff, is an approach that embodies a relaxed attitude towards music and life. Easygoing and pleasant. It always brings a smile to my face!

Thanks for the tip, Dan. I'll store that info re the Bailey House, for the next trip to Maui...I wish it were next week!

------------------
Mark

Went around Maui the other day carolling for Hawaiian Airlines. Ran into hoards of haoles that wouldn't smile when you said hello to them. They just wanted to play golf and pave the rest of the place.

Oh off topic sorry.

ANYONE that holds to the mistaken belief that you can't play truly Hawaiian sounding music on a pedal steel guitar.......is sadly in error and is espousing incorrect and possibly confusing information.....to an otherwise receptive,innocent,and gullible audience.
It's not the guitar.......as much as it is the attitude and misinformation of the player. Toss in cheap strings, improper use of the picks and bar and you've got the problem narrowed down considerably. For some reason, a few players slap the bar down just anywhere on the neck and then to aggrivate the sound even more, they drag the bar up or down the neck without any purpose of "music" and it sound like crap!
The Jerry Byrd Fan Club.com and/or any/all of his personal material explains the entire artistry of playing Hawaiian music and leaves no real room for debate. Yet many Forum readers continue to debate the same old issues without any obvious attempt to expand their REAL KNOWLEDGE of how to play it right.
Excuse me. I apologize.

Well-I'll contribute one to Jeff's off-topic and then we better let it rest.


That's too bad that you have gotten bitter-but can't say as I'd blame you. The times I have been to the Islands, my family and I have felt that the locals were some of the nicest people we have ever met in our lives. Always ready with the smile, and what seemed like a great attitude. The cynic in me,on the first trip many years ago would think "this is one of the most well-known tourist spots in the world-maybe they're being so nice because they want to separate you from your money" but I don't believe that is the case. I believe Hawaiians as a whole are just pleasant people, and that is one of the things that contributes to the vibe of beautiful Hawaiian music.

But to be in too much of a hurry or too uptight to not smile back-I know that I couldn't help but smile back when I have been there and have been treated so graciously by the Hawaiian people.

Jeff, don't lump all the tourists into one category-I would love to see nothing more than to see Maui become as unpaved as possible!

------------------
Mark
<font size="1" color="#8e236b"><p align="center">[This message was edited by Mark Eaton on 13 December 2005 at 01:35 PM.]</p></FONT>

Jeff, I'll bet you money, that if you had stopped carolling and started playing your steel with a nice acoustic bass, rhythm guitar and ukelele they would have stopped in their tracks, WOULD HAVE LISTENED and played their golf game later.

If perchance they wouldn't, they were probably sociopathic.

Aloha,
Don

Hoh, Jeffrey!

I know precisely what you mean about the many "less-than-favorable" changes that have taken place in recent years on Maui, including the hoards of wealthy, cranky 'ol haoles that now have the pleasure of calling the Valley Isle home, and it's a sad state-of-affairs.

You'd think spending a few sleepy days in "paradise" might leave most people with a smile (like it does the rest of us), but I guess we've gotta just roll through it and feel a sense of pity for such people.

It reminds of a quotation I once saw cited somewhere by the late-great crooner Dean Martin who said . . . "I feel bad for people who don't drink; they wake-up in the morning, and that's as good as they're gonna feel all day"! Baah-haaaa!

Keep smilin' braddah!

Watch out for the punk beach kids though! I was talkin' to some of them one night, tryin' to find where some real music was. They wanted me to help them "roll" some Japanese tourists. I guess cuz I was so much bigger than they were. I said, "Thanks, but no thanks." I wandered into the bar at the Beachcomber, and spent the evening listening to and talkin' to Jerry Byrd! The bar was empty. Just me, and one of the best-lookin hookers I've ever seen! Man, did I luck out. No jail time, and what a great man! Never forget it!

Sort of a different take on the matter...

------------------
Mark

As Ray said, the Hawaiian attitude is what it's about, the loving, living, and the spirit of ALOHA.