The Steel Guitar Forum

I was just going over my old music therory books and came across the Hungarian minor scale ( 1,2,b3,#4,5,b6,7 ). How often,if ever is this scale used with the steel guitar?

Not too often. (Even in Hungary.)

In the interest of cost containment and due to resource availability, I use the Hungarian gold minors much less than the Hungarian coal minors.

Sorry Delvin. I couldn't resist.

Around The Bend

Ron Smoot invented the guitar intro and solo (just past the midpoint of the song), and I've been playing it on steel since he left the band. I think it's the Hungarian minor that you describe. I have a hard time getting it right.

I played this in a upright bass solo on 'Wave' this weekend
in Bangkok. About 2- 1/2 octaves low to high
and half way back down. It got a smile from
the piano player too.

But I also like it on steel for jazz manouche
styled minor swing stuff like Black Eyes etc.

For me getting it over/ regular chords'
pushing the time of the #4 to 5 and b6 to 7
so that they are bluesy prep notes for the
resolves of 5 and 1.

Hungarian minor---Hey, she said she was 18...

I'm so sorry...

In my scheme of things, the Hungarian Minor is just the 4th mode of the Double Harmonic Minor: 1 b2 3 4 5 b6 7. That scale I would substitute for any Spanish, flamenco-y sounding thing - ye olde Am->F->E progression. I think the Hungarian was used in a certain era of classical music, the "Tchaikovsky & the other pissed-off Russians" period, but for steel, hmmm.... isn't "Scheherazade" by Rimsky-Korsakov built on this? I do know that the double harmonic minor scale harmonizes rather hideously, best to be pissed off when you do it I guess.

Delvin,

Here's a C6th lick example using that scale.

Its all eighth notes without pedals.

1. at the 4th fret, pick the 7th string

2. at the 2nd fret, pick the 6th string

3. at the 3rd fret, pick the 6th string

4. at the 3rd fret, pick the 5th string

5. at the 3rd fret, pick the 3rd string

6. at the 3rd fret, pick the 4th string

7. at the 4th fret, pick the 5th string


I use this lick over an E7th or over the last two beats of B7th before changing back to E7th.

Paul

Delvin, I've heard the scale that you posted being called the "Eqyptian Minor"? Miles Davis learned it at Julliard when he was going there in his late teens and showed it to Dizzy Gillespie. They used it over a Dom 7th type chord to get that altered dom sound. The b5 was kinda of a new sound for the jazz guys in the 40' bebop days, the b5 was pushed by Dizzy alot back then. Against a Dom 7 chord with the same root as your'e scale we get root, 9, #9, b5,5,#5,major 7, lots of tension to create motion.

Here are the notes in Paul's lick:

Paul's E Hungarian lick in numbers:

1 2 b3 #4 7 b6 5

Interesting topic. I`ve been studying a little bit of Hindustani music theory lately (I`ll never be V.M.Bhatt but I can dream) and just today I was trying to find Western names for their 10 "thats" or parent scales. The Hungarian minor is called Purvi in their system. Six of the thats are equal to the first 6 modes of the major scale. They use lots of scales that start with 1/2 steps (5 out of 10)and never alter the 5th,so no Locrian mode.
I`ve never heard of a double minor scale. I would think of the scale in question as harmonic minor with a sharp 4. I admit Hungarian Minor sounds catchier.
I go now to practice Paul`s lick.

http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=843066

Every seven note scale has seven modes, too... keep ya busy for a few days, hmmm?