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Topic: Matching Amps For Rickenbacker Steels |
Derrick Mau
From:
Honolulu, Hawaii, USA
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Posted 4 Oct 2007 4:18 am |
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| Did Rickenbacker ever come out with matching amps for it's bakelite/frypan??? |
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Eddie Cunningham
From:
Massachusetts, USA
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Posted 4 Oct 2007 4:43 am Rick. Bake. & Black metal Amp = set ??
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| Derrick , Back in the early 50s I bought a Bake. 6 str. Rick. that came with a small black metal cased amp that the fellow had bought as a set around 1936 or "38 ??. As I recall the amp didn't have a volume or tone control , had a field coil 8 in. speaker and sounded sweet , not too much power. Cost me $75.00 for the set. Both are long gone !! Eddie "C" ( the old geezer ) |
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Rick Aiello
From:
Berryville, VA USA
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Posted 4 Oct 2007 5:03 am
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They made one to match my "Boobpan" ... 
Seriously, there are catalog pages that show frypans leaning against amps ... don't know if they were considered "matching".
Later ... the Model 59s came with matching amps ...
Last edited by Rick Aiello on 4 Oct 2007 5:56 am; edited 1 time in total |
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seldomfed
From:
Colorado
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Posted 4 Oct 2007 5:04 am
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| hi Derrick, Ya that looks like mine, I have one too. Must have been made for the Ricky steels - it's a metal cased amp, has a black crinkle finish. Has the same logo plate as the steel. Heavy! No controls at all except on/off. It sounds nice given it's age. I got it with the bakelite - guy said they were a set. |
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Brad Bechtel
From:
San Francisco, CA
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Rick Aiello
From:
Berryville, VA USA
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Posted 4 Oct 2007 8:06 am
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Although the photos of the catalogs are nice ... don't put any "store" in the dates the RIC pages provide ...
They have a T-logo B6, Model NS and a D16 (all postwar) listed under the 1933 ...
Model 59s ... first available ... circa '37/'38
Just tryin' to help  |
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Gary Lynch
From:
Creston, California, USA
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Posted 4 Oct 2007 8:48 am
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I see them on eBay a few times a year. Gruhn has one for sale with a early fry pan he says is a set, 1934. Check under (more photos) with the fry pan
EU2629 Rickenbacker A-22 Frying Pan (More photos...) , circa 1934, EXF, rectangular OHC and original amplifier...
http://www.gruhn.com/ |
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Derrick Mau
From:
Honolulu, Hawaii, USA
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Posted 4 Oct 2007 11:41 am
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Hi Rick,
Bobby Ingano told me you have a frypan that has a beige finish. How does this frypan sound through the black Rickenbacker amp you have in the photo? |
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Rick Aiello
From:
Berryville, VA USA
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Posted 4 Oct 2007 12:32 pm
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That amp is really my favorite ... my A25, A22, various bakelites and Dustpans ... really thrive thru it.
I have another field coil amp (Mike Neer's little wooden Epiphone) ... and that's a "bad boy" too.
These field coil speaker amps (these two have Rola speakers) ... really "work" for the music I enjoy and attempt to play..
Best part about the black wrinkle Ricky ... is it came from a friend ... who is a certified Fender amp repairman ...
So all the scary stuff (caps, grounding, 3 prong plug, etc) usually associated with these ancient rascals ... was already done and done well. |
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Bill Creller
From:
Saginaw, Michigan, USA (deceased)
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Posted 4 Oct 2007 4:08 pm
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| My best amp is an old National with the field coil speaker. Sort of makes me wonder about the difference of a ceramic or alnico compared to the field coil types. |
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Rick Aiello
From:
Berryville, VA USA
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Posted 4 Oct 2007 4:55 pm
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| Bill Creller wrote: |
| My best amp is an old National with the field coil speaker. Sort of makes me wonder about the difference of a ceramic or alnico compared to the field coil types. |
Field coils produce huge magnetic fields ... compared to any permanent magnet unit.
My new friend ... Stephen Schell builds really high end field coil units for audiophile systems.
His driver creates flux densities in excess of 19,000 gauss ...
http://www.6moons.com/industryfeatures/Denver/denver_9.html
My 15" Black Widow's magnet ... measures 1550 gauss at its strongest point..
In the immortal words of Tim the Toolman ...
Last edited by Rick Aiello on 5 Oct 2007 5:27 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Rick Aiello
From:
Berryville, VA USA
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Posted 5 Oct 2007 5:06 am
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Thought y'all might wanna see this ...
I "met" Stephen when he emailed me about an Oahu pickup.
He mentioned he had a gaussmeter because of his work with field coil speakers ... and that immediately turned the correspondence ... into a discussion of them ...
Anyway ... check these out ... here's Steve :
| Quote: |
You are very perceptive in your love of field coil speakers... they really are something special. Of course they were originally built out of necessity, as permanent magnet materials of decent strength weren't widely available until after WWII. Most any high output speaker before then had to use an electromagnet.
When Alnico V became available after the war the industry dropped field coils almost overnight; organ tone cabinets and guitar amps were about the only applications that used them for a bit longer.
I have been collecting, studying and using field coil speakers for many years. Most recently I have begun a company with a friend to manufacture field coil compression drivers for hi fi and home theatre applications. I have attached a picture of our Cogent DS-1428 midrange/high frequency driver.
Unfortunately these things cost a fortune to manufacture, so our customer base is limited to the well heeled hi fi enthusiasts out there for now.
When used for hi fi, field coil speakers tend to have a family sound: alert, alive, dynamic as all get out, yet relaxing to listen to at the same time. The prevailing theory is that the gap flux is stiffer, being less modulated by voice coil currents, leading to more exact cone movements and lower distortion. |
Here's alittle tid-bit ... that some of you Tricone-ists may find interesting ... here's Steve again :
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My friend had purchased the Ric amplifier because it was equipped with a Lansing Manufacturing Company field coil speaker.
He and I have collected the work of Jim Lansing for many years. There is an interesting historical link between Lansing and the 1930s Los Angeles guitar manufacturers even aside from their use of his speakers. Lansing was located at 6900 McKinley Avenue in south central Los Angeles from 1934 until he sold the company to Altec in 1941.
The Dopyera brothers were located at 6920 McKinley until 1937... right next door to Lansing.
Those tri-cone resonators look an awful lot like the spun aluminum compression driver diaphragms that Lansing began building in 1934 ...
And it doesn't seem too far fetched to speculate that the Dopyeras may have helped Lansing get up to speed on the spinning technique.
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Cool guy, for sure !!!
PS: I knew Ray Montee needed help with his Volu-Tone ... and asked Steve to contact him. He did, but Ray had already secured help with his project. |
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Craig Stenseth
From:
Naperville, Illinois, USA
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Posted 5 Oct 2007 7:17 am
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Rick -
Is there such a thing as a field coil pickup? |
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Rick Aiello
From:
Berryville, VA USA
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Posted 5 Oct 2007 8:26 am
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It took some searching ... this is the closest I found ...
Arnold Lesti
Not really the same as an "electromagnet" pickup as you were thinking ... but close.
I imagine the power supply needed, etc would be quite bulky ...
But I do know of a guy who uses extremely powerful neodymium-iron-boron ... to produce flux densities that previously were unheard of in the world of guitar pickups ...
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Ron Simpson
From:
Illinois, USA
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Posted 5 Oct 2007 9:11 am
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Great question Craig, and great response Rick. I recall an obscure brand of steel guitar/amp set that required the user to energize the pickup for sixty seconds or so before playing. The amp had a warning about the dangers of this proceedure on the chassis. All the info I've read about this set never indicated what it was. I have always wondered if it may have been a field coil pickup. Sorry I don't recall the brand name of this outfit, my memory must have the day off.  |
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Eddie Cunningham
From:
Massachusetts, USA
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Posted 5 Oct 2007 9:48 am to Ron S. = Volu-Tone amp and pkup !!
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| Hi Ron !! What you are thinking of is the early 30s Volu-Tone Amp and pickup that required charging the magnetic field before it could be played !! But only plug it in for one second or you would fry the pickup and probably the player !! Was a great pkup for the fast movers, and got rid of a lot of the slower competition !!! Wish I had one of those !! Ray Montee has a Volu-Tone amp now all rebuilt and sounds great he sez !! I think ( hope ) he disconnected the "charger" output !! Eddie "C" ( the old geezer ) |
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Scott Thomas
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Posted 5 Oct 2007 9:59 am
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I read somewhere that Bob Dunn of Milt Brown and the Brownies, etc. who was one of the first (maybe THE first?) to electrify the guitar also had to magnetize or otherwise electically exicte (sorry, I'm non-techie  )his strings and pickup before he played to keep the sound amplified. Does anyone know if this something like Eddie describes?
Oh, and hi there, Eddie!  |
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Eddie Cunningham
From:
Massachusetts, USA
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Posted 5 Oct 2007 10:40 am Magnetize strings in the 50s !!
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| Hi Scott !! When I went in the Army in 1951 I made up a steel out of a 2 X 4 and went to Vega Guitar Co in Boston to buy a cheap pickup. The clerk told me that the pkup had to be magnetized but I could see the pole pieces and thought "what does he know " so I bought it and when I placed it under the strings > No sound !! .I had to bring an old horseshoe magnet with me in the Army and run it over the strings to magnetize them every time I wanted to play !!I played thru a little old radio that I brought with me. So I guess that is what Bob Dunn and the Brownies had to do !! Eddie "C" ( the old geezer ) |
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Denny Turner
From:
Oahu, Hawaii USA
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Posted 5 Oct 2007 8:45 pm
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Old LAP STEEL amps (lap steel said to fit this SWOP section):
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To help prevent someone from winding up with an expensive headache in searching for and acquiring an OLD amp:
Except for purely collecting purposes where an amp will be shown rather than played:
For any number of reasons too numerous to list here; Old amps are notorious for either having problems or developing problems not long after purchase ....often serious problems; And the parts to fix them are often difficult and often expensive to find; Especially for someone not up to good speed about old amps, ...who would further have the expense of an expert to fix them.
If a person isn't up to speed on old amps, I highly suggest they do ample homework in consult with an expert in old amps and acquiring their parts.
If buying locally, a deposit can be left and the amp taken to an expert to check out. For instance, simply plugging an old amp in can often break it even farther beyond what might already be broken. Leaving a deposit should be with the understanding that if it's broken it will only be returned in exchange for the deposit back.
My rule of thumb in evaluating the price of purchasing an old amp that I can't take for expert examination & testing, ....is to EXPECT that it will need much work at a cost of about $300 to $400; Plus it's wise to purchase extra tubes to replace down the road if the time to find and acquire a tube that goes bad will be an issue. That way I won't be disappointed like several times in the past before taking-on that / my rule of thumb. In that vein it makes sense to seek the cheapest purchase price, even if the amp is known to be broken and thus a cheaper price. If a person is financially able, I think it makes good sense to just plan on acquiring a particular old amp with the intention of having it completely rebuilt as close to new as possible or modified by a tech expert in that particular amp or very similar amps. Buying one already completely rebuilt by an expert (best from the person that rebuilt it) is also an option to balance with purchasing one to rebuild.
An option for having a matching amp for purely aesthetic purpose ...such as the appearance of a matching amp while playing out, ....is to install a newer, or new, or modified, or specially built amp, ...(and often more reliable)... into the cabinet of the old amp, designing in particular desired assets / features of the old amp such as field coil speakers, AND features a person might desire that the old amp didn't have ...such as volume and tone controls, line out, etc.
A person not up to speed on old amps can gain ALLOT of insight into OPTIONS, in consult with an amp expert(s) (or even amp techs or handmen ...for just information and insights).
.,....imho.
_________________
Aloha,
Denny T~
http://www.dennysguitars.com/
Please help support humanity:
http://www.redcross.org/en/aboutus |
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Ray Montee
From:
Portland, Oregon (deceased)
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Posted 6 Oct 2007 9:44 am EDDIE CUNNINGHAM and others.............
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Yes! My brand new vintage VOLU-TONE amp complete with field coil speaker is up and running. When the volume is reduced, you can't even hear it hummmm. What a fine amp and great sound!
Dan Healy of SFO did a fine job for me. My wife still isn't speaking to me but some of 'us' realize what a fine piece of equipment I have here.
On the back of his fine amp are three speaker jacks.
ONE is for the guitar. I was warned by Dan not to use the other two holes and to not be twisting the little spring loaded knobby thingie...... He said those two holes put out some 500 VOLTS, WATTS, MegaHertz or something that sounded real technical like that. His word is good enough for me so I will NEVER plug into those two alternate holes.
HOWEVER, there is NO WARNING LABLE or indication that there ever was one on this unit. Some had metal plates that were silver and emblazened with red warning of the high voltage issue you were referring to. |
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