The Steel Guitar Forum

Kay has just created a Power Point presentation detailing the basics of playing in C6 (and a little bit of B11 too).

This is for HSGA members only.

If you are a member you can access this great learning tool by going to the HSGA Forum (Big Kahuna area).

HSGA Forum

Thanks!! I'm there.

I'm sure 'the few' will enjoy Kay's efforts.

But, to post an offer that isn't available to all is simply rude, and put's to the forefront a 'not for you' attitude that frosts my butt, and opens a can of worms that I will now dump out.

I've long wondered why some of you guys often shut the door on folks interested in the instrument, as exampled with the KAPU/STAY OUT sections of your forum. Big Kahuna? Big deal. That's just a turn off, and antithetical to what I would assume is some of the ultimate goals for the HSGA, membership and perpetuating the instrument.

Is this post an effort to entice membership? If so, it's misguided and counter-productive. I personally would not be part of any group that does this. Saying it wants to promote/perpetuate their item/interest of choice, while keeping the masses at arms length, unless they join up.
I don't get it.
Open arms, gentlemen! That is what gets people to warm up to (in this case) the steel, and your group. Not this 'a section for you, and this section is only for us ' mentallity.

When you have your yearly convention at the Queen Kapiolani hotel, you charge $25 to step a foot inside. You may as well just shut and lock the door, and hang up a 'do not disturb' sign!
I know every organization needs to keep the $s rolling in, and I'll bet you have a nice little account full, at least enuf to publicize events and welcome any and all to come in and see what's up.

This post is not to perpetuate a beef between me and some HSGA members, tho I'm sure it'll merely serve to do so, and further ruffle some feathers instead of changing a few minds towards (semi-metaphorically) throwing open ALL the doors, without the ocassional 'off limits' barriers.
I think you'd have an even better membership enlistment if this was standard procedure/policy.

For those who think I'm all about bashing the HSGA, I have a seperate post suggesting a way to promote Hawaiian steel guitar AND generate membership, which I chose to post openly, rather than suggest in private, to have it on record as having been brought up, hopefully discussed, and maybe istituted.

Go Bows!

I always looked at that sort of thing as perks for those who have paid dues and become members. A "membership has it's privileges" deal. Same as the nice quarterly news letter with tabs by Alan Akaka and others and some other benefits. There's plenty there on the HSGA forum for all to enjoy, free of charge. Who knows, maybe the C6 power point thing in the "exclusive" Big Kahuna section will get someone who's been thinking about joining to finally send in their dues and become a part. I know I was always one of those who "was going to get around to joining". In my case, I was inspired by the dedication and generosity of guys like Rick Aiello and Gerald Ross. I wanted to be a part of that. Paying the small dues is about the least I could do, considering the time and effort folks like these and others put in just out of love for the Hawaiian steel guitar and its music.

Ron, I'm glad that you put forth some ideas that you think could improve membership, which in the interest of perpetuating the Hawaiian steel guitar is what it's all about. But for myself, I just haven't seen or felt anything about the HSGA that would lead me to think of it as anything but open, welcoming and inclusive, even with those things you cited.

I think I understand where you're coming from Ron, but I gotta disagree.

I am not a HSGA member, but what's wrong with an organization offering benefits to their members?

HSGA already offers a lot to non members, not the least of which is all the great music posted on their Site.

I can't speak for the HSGA, but the feeling I get from their Web Site and their forum (both open to the public for free) is that they would gladly make everything free if that was financially feasable. We all know that there are costs involved in doing what they do.

Thanks for your thoughts and concerns, Ron.

Ron,

Why don't you do something to promote the Hawaiian Steel Guitar?

Yes, the new website you created showcasing a calendar of who's playing where in the islands is great. Thank you.

But it seems that every time the HSGA tries to do something that is not within your tiny little paradigm of how a "real" Hawaiian Steel Guitar Organization should function you start whining and complaining.

You are also an opportunist.

A few months back I asked you to videotape some of the jam sessions that Bobby Ingano, Jeff Au Hoy and Derrick Mau were hosting on Oahu. I told you that I would post the clips on the HSGA website and you would get full credit.

Your response to my offer... "will the HSGA buy me a video camera?".

When I said it couldn't be done, you dropped the project and I heard nothing more from you.


p.s. We didn't buy PowerPoint for Kay Das. PowerPoint is part of Microsoft Office. Microsoft Office sells for about $300. Kay Das bought his own copy.

Right on, Scott, if you feel OK about some doors being shut to a larger amount of people that could be generated towards membership by becoming interested in the steel and maybe picking it up, that's your decision to make.
I wouldn't be at all happy being party to such. The doors should be wide open.
Yes, there are a lot of things to commend the HSGA for, and there are areas that can use constructive critiquing, but it seems the listeners that count, do so grudgingly. I would imagine that some interest can garner membership thru the 'exclusive incentives', but I'll bet more are lost.
I don't get any kick out of bringing them to light, but I feel it's worth the effort to do so, in hopes that it'll prompt improvements, and I believe it's bourne fruit in the last few years.
Overall Scott, this is a decades old debate of many matters that was going on long before this SGForum was even dreamed of, so maybe you are looking at it from a recent and/or limited perspective.

Keith, where do finances come into play just by welcoming EVERYBODY?
It's not about offering benefits to members, it's about NOT offering them to all. I think bringing as many into the fold as possible is more important than exclusives.

Club finances; while not overflowing with throwaway $, I'm not worried about them filing bankruptcy.

Gerald, you've hoisted that dead mackrel many times before, suggesting that a big (or small) club is totally impotent compared to one person with more to do in a day's existance than devote it all to steel.
Never bought it, never will.
But, I'd like to go to my grave having, as one man, done as many things as possible to reverse the tide for the steel. Those that know me, know that all I have going for me in this endeavour at this time, is desire.
If I can develope my little web page into something with a larger charge behind it, it'll be at least one more rock for the pile.

If I was a decades old international organization with 600 members, some with appropriately helpful connections and $, and a decent bank account for the club kitty, there would be little to no concern towards promoting the Hawaiian Steel Guitar, as it would have been forever sitting in it's rightful place, having never fallen into the cracks of memory.

Yes, I complain about a group that I'm not a member of, but only to a fraction of what I could, as I'm able to post every day about the 'woulda/coulda/shoulda but won'ts' that I witness and hear about. I've seen things go from really really good to less and less and less, to a tiny bit better lately, so I stay reserved for the most part, but will speak up when I feel motivated by something positive to offer, or by opportunities missed/blown.
There would have been nothing overt to grumble about today (actually, there are a lot, but I have others concerns to keep in mind) before I posted about the videos, per my other thread (Thank you!, Rick!) until I ran into this.

But Gerald, your labeling me as an opportunist is gutter level.

I was happy to hear your openness towards posting video material that I might get down, as well as accepting portions of my private collection of audio for others to learn from and enjoy.

Due to the fact that you can't reproduce my stuff to your computer from my MiniDisc format is beyond my abilities to correct without accepting loss of sound quality via cassettes.
I'd love to film and submit video to the club, but I currently don't own a working video unit, so I sucked it up and did something I never thot I'd do, I asked you for help. Minimal $ outlay for a decent AV unit that we all could benfit from. No dice.
You say it "couldn't" be done? Or, more accurately, is it that it WOULDN'T be done. If ya'll aren't willing to pony up a reletive pitance towards a cam for something you emphatically requested, I'm left flabbergasted, but not all that surprised.

I certainly have not "dropped the project".
When you said simply having access to a camcorder wasn't going to happen, I went back to square one.
I have that and many more steel video ideas bursting to get accomplished. But with no kala to outlay for these ventures, they remain dreams.
If you were interested in hearing even more about it from me, you could have asked. So to say you then heard nothing more from me, is illegitimate. You sed 'no', I moved on.

Well, I'm off to enjoy 2! shows by Genoa Keawe with Alan Akaka on steel that could have been filmed and shown to all, but 'no'.

Guys, I am truly sorry there is some tension regarding HSGA and its Big Kahuna forum section. I belong to HSGA and I think it's a wonderful organization. I haven't attended the conventions so I don't know everyone as well as I could, but that will be rectified within the next year or so.

Unfortunately, some fees and dues are necessary so the HSGA can function. I don't resent that and neither, I think, do any other HSGA members. I see HSGA as a great way to communicate with other Hawaiian steel players; to trade ideas, comments, jokes, etc. When I go to my computer the HSGA website is the first place I visit. This site is the second. I luv 'em both!

I sincerely hope we can put some of the tension behind us and, in the words of that gentleman with the lumps on his head, we can all just get along.

I don't see where it says not open to all.
Join, pay a small fee, and you are in.

I also don't see why a small organization
can be expected to buy large ticket video equipment.

All I know is that the members of HSGA that I HAVE met,
are all cool and giving people and not at all exclusionist.

In particular Kay and Rick have invited me into their homes,
just because they know me from here.
Rick had me tour his collection and Kay, bless him,
put me up for two nights in Singapore.

Met and played with Gerald at ISGC and he's cool too.

I am SURE I have met other HSGA members at Scotty's too.

I just don't see where this beef is coming from.
Different formats call for different hardware.
Not every small organization can afford ALL the hardware for all formats.

Ron,
As much as I admire what you have done for steel guitar I must also disagree with you. Membership must have it's privileges or else what is the point of having a club or any other organization for that matter? The newsletters alone are worth the dues. Yes, you have to join to get that too.

I would love to walk into 24 Hour Fitness for free. How about Costco or Sam's Club? See Ron, It is just not the HSGA. If you choose not to join, the club still offers plenty of freebies on the HSGA site. I have sat for hours listening to great music.

Ron,

I think few may agree with you in your posts on this thread, but I believe the vast majority will disagree with you on the basis of your rationale.

You and I have had running conversations over the years about some of your opinions – some of which I have agreed with and some I have not. I have told you that it would be better for you to be a part of HSGA so you can see and understand matters from the inside. On the outside you have the disadvantage of not having full story or the context of HSGA decision-making. Almost every decision has a financial part and so that is why dues, admission fees must be administered. I can assure you that HSGA does not have deep pockets.

Ron, you communicate that by limiting the masses to full access to the “Big Kahuna Club” may be a bad thing. I tend to think that it may be a good thing. It should perk the interest of persons to inquire if they have any interest at all. I would want to join just to see what goes into that Big Kahuna Club section. There are 10 other open sections at the HSGA website for the masses to explore. Just think 9 out of 10 open sections and all they have to do is to register. Would you have anything against having required registration at the HSGA site?

Personally, I would like to see HSGA go after people who are willing to make a commitment to furthering the steel as expressed in membership, paying dues and donating time and even by have a section for members only. It is kinda nice to be rewarded for membership. Another thought, an organization of committed persons can do more than a single person.
.
As Scott says, "membership has it's privileges" …..

Hey Ron, you seemed to be expressing that you were having some financially difficulties because could not afford a camcorder to do some Island music recording. Does money come into play with respect to joining the HSGA because of dues payment? If that is the case, I would be glad to pay your membership dues for 1 year so that you can experience at least part of what some of the rest of us enjoy by having the Newsletter.

Aloha,
Don

For the last 10 years or-so "every" issue (in general) said in this discussion chain has been argued, bantered, offended, defended, turned inside out, ran through the wringer, x-rayed, MRI'ed, litmus tested, ran through spectrographs, had blood hounds sniff it from one end to the other many times; ....and it all seems to point to a reasonably simple proposition: The HSGA in Hawaii is what it is .... and ain't what it ain't; and will be what it will be and won't be what it won't. I personally think that discussions such as this one would be much better off if we delineate the HSGA from discussing ideas and vision for promoting the Steel Guitar in Hawaii. The fact that no-one has achieved anywhere near the quite reasonable potential for promoting the Steel Guitar in Hawaii, speaks for itself. If the HSGA or anyone else wants to enterprise on such ideas and vision, like Gerald Ross and a number of others have done so well, then fine, ....and if not, well, se la vi'; OR those of us that get muffed over what we think could be done to promote the Steel Guitar in Hawaii could certainly inventory the many great ideas expressed and sitting in the SGF archives, develop a plan and go give it a shot ourselves or go find someone that can / will. OOPS ...that just ran up against the litmus: Who could / would do it? and with what limitations? Seems to me to lead right back to stop in-fighting and just separate the HSGA from discussing ideas and vision for promoting the Steel Guitar in Hawaii; And everyone would / should get the kudos they deserve. At this point I think it pretty obvious there's not much constructive in causing so much tension over square pegs that can't be forced through a round hole.

Nice to hear from you Denny. It has been a long while since we heard from you.

It is nice to have AM940 Hawaiian Radio on the internet finally. Remember our discussions on that.

Aloha,
Don

Thank you, Don, for the generous offer. But if I'd been interested in being a member within the last 20 yrs. I'd have done so.
Prior to that, it was my own fault for never getting the paper work/$ in to join. That I regret.
But the last 2 decades worth, I'll pass.

I think I have a pretty good grip on the situation per the HSGA. Lot's of great people over the years (mostly the worker bees that got little to no respect from the Big Kahuna's), and a few that retain/ed power and havn't managed to do a few important things that I and other's from the outside have long wanted to see done. I'm far from alone in my views.
The BK's have seen fit to minimize many efforts that should be maxed, preffering it to be a virtual do-nothing of importance club, and it doesn't look like it's gonna change any time soon.

David, FYI, we're talking about just a 'very' few hundred dollars to get a small decent quality one hand cam-corder, that would've been compatible to HSGA's hardware.
Glad you're enjoying meeting some of the members. Kay seems like a real nice guy.

Gary, comparing retail giants to the HSGA is like apples to elephants. Why does membership in the HSGA have to include exclusion? The original basis for the HSGA's existance was to promote and perpetuate the Hawaiian steel guitar, and have fun.
They've managed to keep the fun part.

Hello guys. Life is too short and we're dead far too long!!!!!

I think it's a non-issue. I'm glad the Kay Das presentation was noted, because I wasn't aware of it, and I'm a member of HSGA.

I don't think it was "rude" of Gerald to post it, I think it was "kind" of him to do it. I guess it just depends which end of the stick you're holding.

Anyway guys, let's put our efforts to more positive items. This argument will go nowhere, there will be no winner.

George

I've been a member of HSGA since Day One. For whatever reason, I am always DENIED access to the HSGA site (forum)...which is why I have long given up trying.

I believe that you have to register Keoki and receive a pass word before you have access. The reason? There are a lot of crazies out there who for one reason or another do not have HSGA's interest at heart and they do need to be screened.

Aloha,
Don

I believe that you have to register Keoki and receive a pass word before you have access... to post, but you still have access to read.

Sorry my statement was not complete in its meaning in the prior post.

Aloha,
Don

I am sure it is only because someone at HSGA
doesn't know of your log in problems that you
are not getting logged in.
Computers are unforgiving for sure.

Lets please get back to Kay's good P P presentation.
And ONLY his presentation.

If Ron has had twenty years to join and has not figured out how to print the enrollment form from the web site or ask for one from another member yet it seem he is not too interested in joining but just likes to complain and disturb the club. I am also done with this part of the discussion.

George- contact Rick Aielo, he will show you how to get registered.

Kay has done a great job with this. He is showing the novice player the layout of the strings and development of chords throughout the fret board.

Since I have never tried B11th tuning I got quite a bit out of it myself.

Thanks Kay for you excellent work and great music.

That's an excellent graphic presentation - thanks Kay!
It lays out the basics in an easy to conceptualize manner.
There are many good reasons to be an HSGA member, and this is one more.

Denny, you crack me up
That photo says it all.

George Keoki Lake wrote:I've been a member of HSGA since Day One. For whatever reason, I am always DENIED access to the HSGA site (forum)...which is why I have long given up trying.

Mr. Lake ... "DENIED" ... please !!!

http://www.hsga.org/forum/cgi-bin/yabb2 ... 3155/30#30 ... scroll midway down ...

If you have forgotten your user name and/or password ... Gerald or I are just an email away ... and we are pretty easy to find ...

As far as the insulting comments about the HSGA Forum and its Big Kahuna section ...

The only thing I care to say is ....

The material found in that section ... is WORK that was generated by HSGA members ... tab written, BIAB rhythm tracks, Power Point presentations, etc ...

If the individual who is the author of that piece(s) of work wants everyone to see it ... they post it in one of the all access forums.

Is everyone in the world entitled to someone else's "work" ... free of charge ... ???

Is Baz's magazine free ???

Are Georgeboard's instructional DVDs free ???

Are Bobby Ingano's music CDs free ???

Are Cumquat's historic CDs of Iona, McIntire, etc free ???

On my own website ... I freely share alot of "free info" to folks who want to see/use it ... as does Denny Turner on his great site ...

PS The Jerry Byrd videos I put up ... 5 in total ... were in the free access video section not the "Big Kahuna" section ... these were ultimately taken down because of "ownership" issues (see other HSGA bashing topic).

Thanks Rick for bringing my name into this.

As a NON Member GeorgeBoards totally supports the HSGA on an Emotional Basis , and we look forward to Joining Again and participating in your festivals and web site etc.

In my case we have relocated our lives and manufacturing business to our Homestead in Oklahoma from Sandy Eggo. The move and it's endless expenses has dominated our ability to get to many of the shows and festivals that are now within a long day's drive. The Joliet and Winchester Hoot's are on the top of the list for the near future.

This very annoying person seems to think his points of view are of a higher value than the body and leadership of the orginazition.
I am tending to agree with Gearld's evaluation of oppertunity seeking. The supposedly informational web site is clearly a thinly veiled scam to gain monetairy satisfaction from all of the Marketing Affiations that are now popular on the internet eg; Google Ads. Be prepaired to be Bombarded with endless popup adware that is a form of Spyware intended to sell your searches and more to marketing firms with a monitary return if all of the parameters are met. The Majority of links on that site can easily be accessed with standard internet searches.
It also appears to be one of those freebie type sites. Web Servers are so inexpensive now of daze and provide tremendous service to handle video, photos, powerpoint and numerous features.
It is suggested that this detractor start his own Chat/Gripe Room and keep it to the privacy of those who agree and dis agree with the points of view.

So far as giving away the work and investment of decades of effort, blessed by so many professional Artists and manufactures of instruments. Dosen't everyone expect to see a paycheck at their day jobs?

Much like Rick A's Excessive Efforts to Create a Modernized Retro Instrument to share with the lap steel lovers of today's world GeorgeBoards has been selling our instruments at a loss for over a decade.

Complaining about a 400.00 dollar Hardware investment to share an Art Form with the World via an invitation from an orginazation that has invested into a medium that reaches out world wide and can handle video content, along with a WebMaster willing to do hours of tedious work at No Cost all for the Love of Sharing such a Rare Art form.

Shame on you! When you get up to the 200k investment I,ve donated to the continuation of this art form lemme know and we can get together for a laugh over how ridick-ulas all of this is.

Well I've gone and dunnit! open my big mouth and shared my personal feelings,

Who do I call or write to to join the HSGA again? And What can GeorgeBoards do to support the orginazition?

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