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Topic: Volume/Tone Pedal? |
Scott Rogers
From:
Andalusia, AL
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Posted 19 Sep 2007 7:57 am |
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Is there such thing as a Volume/Tone pedal or have I dreamed this? Seems like I've seen a post on here about a pedal in which the vertical motions varies volume and horizontal motions varies tone...???... if there exists such a thing, are they still in production? thanks,
Scott |
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Ron Simpson
From:
Illinois, USA
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Posted 19 Sep 2007 8:04 am
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| Fender used to make a volume/tone pedal. I suspect other makers have also done them. |
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Keith Cordell
From:
San Diego
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Posted 19 Sep 2007 11:03 am
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| Bigsby made one as well. |
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Rick Alexander
From:
Florida, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 19 Sep 2007 12:09 pm
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They pop up on eBay fairly frequently for about $200.
I had one for a while, but it sucks the life out of your tone.
Now I use a Hilton VP. |
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Tim Whitlock
From:
Colorado, USA
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Posted 19 Sep 2007 1:00 pm
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| I use a Fender vol/tone pedal as my primary. These pedals are mostly of interest to players who want that retro doo-wah sound ala Speedy West (although he didn't use a pedal to get it). If the tone pot string slips, then you lose some high end. Likewise if the volume pot string slips, you don't have full volume to work with and your tone suffers. You have to check the pots weekly to make sure they are snugged up. Rick's right about the price and availability. Fender, Bigsby and Dearmond all had versions but I would stay away from the Dearmond because the plastic gears they use get chewed up. |
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Bill Creller
From:
Saginaw, Michigan, USA (deceased)
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Posted 19 Sep 2007 7:37 pm
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I haven't seen a DeArmond tone/vol pedal.
I have an old vol pedal, but it has a metal rack & pinion, and built like a truck. It DOES eat pots though. |
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Terry Wood
From:
Lebanon, MO
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Posted 20 Sep 2007 5:27 am
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Fender made them, like Rick, I use the Hilton pedal now. I think it's the best I have ever used.
Also I have used DeArmonds, Sho-Buds, Goodrich with the tone wheel like Curly Chalkers, but the Hilton is the best.
My good friend Speedy West used is tone control on the steel to get the doo-wahs, and probably the volume pedal at times for various sounds. He was a Master Showman and of sound effects on the straight steel too. I have a tone control mounted on the end of my 14 string BMI steel that Zane Beck installed on my custom guitar back in 1984. I had him do that because he had put one on each of the BMI steels that he had custom built for Speedy.
Next, if you go to the BMI Steel Guitar Website you can see the picture of the red guitar one of the BMIs that Zane custom built for Speedy. Also you can still get the steel guitar video of Speedy West which is a real treasure. It is available through DeWitt Scotty Scott at his music site at St. Louis, MO. On that video tape which is taken from various years of the Steel Guitar Show at St. Louis, Speedy is playing Beck Musical Instruments, BMIs.
Hope this helps.
Terry Wood |
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Keith Cordell
From:
San Diego
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Posted 20 Sep 2007 5:44 am
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| The thread is about vol/tone pedals ,and Hilton, while probably the best non-pot pedal on the market, doesn't make one. I know you guys like them, but we know about them... why can't we get through a thread without someone trying to push them? Let it go. |
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Rick Alexander
From:
Florida, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 20 Sep 2007 6:04 am
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Keith, it's very relevant - because for all their retro appeal, pot pedals kill tone. The old Fenders are as bad as it gets for this. No discussion of these pedals is complete without stating this fact and mentioning the best solution.
If we neglect to bring this up, a new player might get one of these old pedals without knowing about the problem.
Sure, we know about them - but that doesn't mean everybody does.
After all, that's one of the reasons we're here - to help new players with the benefit of our experience. |
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Keith Cordell
From:
San Diego
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Posted 20 Sep 2007 8:58 am
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I know what you're saying Rick, honestly. But the discussion is about Volume/Tone pedals specifically, and if someone has read even 2% of the posts on this forum they already know about the Hiltons. I prefer pot pedals myself, and have had a Hilton. I understand that the quality is there but I believe that the assertion that pot pedals always kill tone is incorrect and possibly misleading- I've used them for years and the loss of frequency is small at most.
My issue with it is that anytime a post comes up that even indirectly mentions a pedal with a rocker elicits Hilton endorsements, and it is hijacking a thread to start redirecting the post to an item that has nothing to do with what is being discussed. The Fender pedals are kind of cool, but I agree that the price is totally out of line with the usefulness, but a Bigsby at $350 is a good pedal for getting both functions. If the pedal you bring up does tone as well, I'd love to hear about it. The Hilton doesn't. Maybe Keith will do one in the future- I'm already drooling at the prospect, and would be lined up with a lot of other players to get one. |
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Rick Alexander
From:
Florida, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 20 Sep 2007 9:42 am
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Keith, that would be cool - I'd be right there in line with you buddy!
In fact, that's about the only thing that would ever make me forsake my present VP.
Everybody hears differently as we all know.
But whenever I do an A-B comparison of Pot Pedal vs Direct,
I hear a significant loss of tonality - more than I can live with.
I've done this test with a number of VPs over the years.
With a Hilton, I don't notice any difference.
There may very well be a difference, but I don't hear it.
So for now - if I want to boo-wah, I do it like Speedy did - with the tone control on the guitar.
Dang, there I go again yakking about the Hilton . . |
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Scott Rogers
From:
Andalusia, AL
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Posted 20 Sep 2007 10:39 am
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hey guys thanks for offering alot of info on this topic! Matter of fact, I'd never heard of the Hilton VP till this thread! I've been searching all I know on the net to find a Vol/Tone pedal and I can't find anything other than a brokedown DeArmond on ebay with the tone pot missing in it...
Auction on eBay.
Does anyone have any specific links to existing vol/tone pedals in production? Fender, Bigsby, etc... Of what I gathered from the Hilton pedals,,, they use IR sensors to alter the output (rather than using pots for resistance).. hell, this could be done to alter tone as well right? And for that matter, all other sorts of effects could be altered by use of IR sensors without having to subject your tone through pots....???.... Jeezzzz.. I went through EE at Auburn and all we done with IR sensors was make robots! ha! |
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Rick Alexander
From:
Florida, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 20 Sep 2007 11:37 am
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You're very welcome Scott.
Say, with your Auburn training why don't you get busy and build the first IR Tone & Volume Pedal?
It would be a cakewalk compared to building robots!
I know where you could sell a couple of them - right Keith? |
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Keith Cordell
From:
San Diego
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Posted 20 Sep 2007 11:47 am
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| I'm already there! I'd love to get one that would do both with modern circuitry, and I think a lot of folks would too. Make the tone part with a wah circuit and you'd make a fortune. |
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Rick Alexander
From:
Florida, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 20 Sep 2007 12:09 pm
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Well there you go - it's a winner.
Just add a little switch to toggle between tone and wah and the world will beat a path to your door.
Obviously Keith and I will be the head beaters . . |
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Scott Rogers
From:
Andalusia, AL
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Posted 20 Sep 2007 12:31 pm
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so does my post qualify as a patent? haha! thanks again for the discussion folks, in the meantime, I'll dig out my circuit theory books!  |
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Keith Cordell
From:
San Diego
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Posted 20 Sep 2007 12:50 pm
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| With a wah circuit you'd open it up to guitarists as well. Most guitar players want the "throat" of a wah pedal if they are going to have a tone pedal. Steelers have higher output pickups, and the tone pot has a bigger effect, or it seems that way to me. Adding an inductor-based circuit makes it more vocal. Rick's idea is pretty intriguing- as they usually are! |
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Tim Whitlock
From:
Colorado, USA
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Posted 21 Sep 2007 9:40 am
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After reading Rick's comments, I did a little testing of my own. Using an AB box I ran my guitar through my Fender vol/tone pedal and also straight to the amp. The box allowed me to compare the straight-to-the-amp tone to the through-the-pedal tone by switching back and forth. I honestly could not perceive a difference in volume or tone. If there is any difference, it must be barely perceptible, and certainly nothing that a minute tweek of the amp wouldn't compensate. I stand by my choice. The Fender pedal sounds just fine, if you keep the pots snugged up so they reach their maximum throw.
Edited to say: I do have to replace the pots every so often (3-5 years). I wouldn't mind if I didn't have to bother with that! |
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Todd Clinesmith
From:
Lone Rock Free State Oregon
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Posted 21 Sep 2007 10:18 am
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I have never noticed any loss of tone either. I do have a Bigsby pedal that needs a re-stringing. It has a loss of tone and volume... but it can be fixed to alleviate this. Maybe this is Rick's experience ?
I like the idea of a Hilton T/V pedal. I bet they would sell. |
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