The Steel Guitar Forum

I've played slide on regular guitar and on electric balalajka for pretty long. On both instruments I've damped with my fingertips for the most part. Sometimes the whole thumb for the lower strings on the guitar but not the palm of my hand, ever.

As I started using fingerpicks I started damping the same way, after reading about it and understanding that it's done. You damp with your fingers wearing the picks as you would if you didn't have them, right? That's how I do it anyway and for both guitar and balalajka that works out fine.

It's hard for me to damp with my palm on the lapsteel but it's getting better. For chords this really seems to be the best way, even for me. Playing a chord, damping it with my picks and then movinig to the next chord means my fingers simply have too much to do in too short a time.

For single note lines damping with the picks still seems to work fine. Should I work on doing those with my palm too or could I have both techniques going at the same time?

Just lift your bar a tad off the strings.

I've been told not to do that. And the bigger bar I'm using now, which definitely has it when it comes to tone, isn't lifted up that easily. Not even a tad.

I used to lift a lot before, that was natural since I do that when I slide on regular guitar and electric balalajka. I slide, fret and lift all the time.

Terje, this video might help you:
Blocking
It covers Palm Blocking, Pick Blocking and Bar Lift Blocking.

Nice clip, thanks. Yeah, I sort of knew what all three ways of blocking consist of, I was more looking for reason why you might prefer one or the other... or why you might like all three

All three have their uses, but it's very important to learn Palm Blocking correctly.
Properly executed, it will mute all unwanted sounds when you change grips or do single note work from string to string.

I agree with Rick, but it's also worth noting that most native Hawaiian players use predominantly left hand blocking or "lifting the bar". A lot of excellent players shy away from this because it takes very good bar control, but if you can do it it somehow seems a lot smoother and less clipped.

If you're already familiar with this technique -- as you indicate -- don't shy away from it.

Unless you have a specific reason to lift the bar, then it's frowned upon by most steelers with good technique, as it's just a bunch of unnecessary movement, and overall, a bad habit.

But, there are no rules in music, and a lot of great players did/do it ALL wrong.

Good right hand palm damping will eventually be a smooth and virtually natural/automatic part of your playing, for chords to singles, and if you can incorporate finger damping as well, so much the better. But it's generally not needed.

Well, it's not really unneccessary movement if you're moving the bar to a new position anyway, and don't want to slide into it.

I'm perfectly aware that most steelers preach only palm blocking. But then it's interesting to watch some of them up real close and you see that they actually do a good bit of left hand blocking. But if you ask them then they will deny it.

The bottom line is do whatever feels most comfortable and gets the sound you want. The truth is that many excellent players use all three methods mixed together very well.

What could be necessary in lifting the bar merely to move to a different position, when you can maintain the muting just enuf to reach the desired spot?

Not to say there could never be a situation, but I've not encountered one, unless your coming off the nut.

There's no point in arguing about this. You obviously believe that left hand blocking is a "bad habit" and not necessary. And it's obvious that you would never change your opinion!!! You are entitled to that view just as you are entitled -- as least as long as the webmaster agrees -- to promoting all the ultra liberal political web links in your signature, although I do not think this Forum is an appropriate place for any type of politics.

The point I was trying to make is that a LOT of very good steel players use various degrees of left hand blocking very effectively, usually in combination with palm blocking and pick blocking. A number of them have documented this fact in various articles and publications. To say that there's no neccessity to ever raise the bar when moving to a different position is to say that those players aren't doing it correctly. The steel guiter is such a "non-standard" instrument that it's hard to say there's a purely "correct" way to do anything on it. The sound produced is what determines whether a given technique, tuning, pedals, no pedals, etc. is "correct."

I certainly don't put myself in the category of a "very good" steel player, as at my age I simply don't play that much anymore. But I have been playing for many years and I do use probably more palm blocking than anything else, but I also use left hand blocking when it seems like the right thing to do. I've never been very effective at pick blocking.

I doubt that Mr. Brummett and I would agree about very much in general. But we do agree here. Left hand blocking is perfectly legitimate. Some very good players, most often of the Hawaiian persuation have used it to good effect. You just can't argue with effectiveness and success. But I figure that there is a reason that it seems to be becoming increasingly rare, though I don't know and can't figure out, what it would be.
When it comes to steel technique, I have left no stone unturned in my search for what works best for me. The fact is that some things work for me and others don't.

Simmer down, Bill. It's hardly an arguement.
This is a discussion forum. If you have a technique or special method that superceeds what I was taught by someone who spent, "50 years doing it wrong, and getting it right", then discribe it. I'm all for learning, even if it differs from the standards, long preffered by many of the greatest.

To constantly lift the bar just to go from position to position is pointless, unless there's a damn good reason for it, which there usually isn't.

Your rage over my ultra liberalness may be blinding you from reading my posts in total, so as to grasp that I concur with much that you say.
Yep, I'm liberal to the max, as well as equally conservative. I merely seek the truth, rather than be blinded by liars of any color. As any good American should.

I guess I had not ever payed attention to how I blocked the strings. It just seems to work OK. It just comes out to what works I think. If I try figuring it out it will likely just screw me up!!

I hate to add fuel to this fire.....BUT . I take lessons from a lady in her 80's that was Paul Franklin's first teacher. She has been a steel teacher all her life. She has me lifting the bar for blocking all the time. She considers pick blocking something 'new' and doesn't really recognize it as legitimate (I use it anyway when the situation calls for it). Could this be something that could fall into 'old school' and 'new school' type of thing? Isn't the end result what counts?

If lifting the bar is bad technique, then I suck way worse than I thought I did. I lift the bar about every fourth note- a lot more like a dobro than a steel, in a way- but what works for you is what you do. Forget all that dogmatic crap about traditional technique, unless you just want to parrot someone else's style. Do what works, not what you're told.

As a 30+ yr steeler I always felt that lifting the bar to damp or control unwanted notes was bad technique..........until I started playing dobro!! Then I discovered that all the great dobro pickers from Josh Graves through Jerry Douglas and Rob Ickes do most of their blocking with the left hand. Today's hot dobro players play clean, precise and smoothly by covering only the strings being played and blocking the rest with the trailing fingers behind the bar when the bar is lifted, tilted or pulled back. When I first started on psg I focused a lot of effort on palm blocking, now into my 2nd year with the dobro I've had to learn what my dobro heroes do so well: left hand blocking. I palm block some on the dobro but I'm in the vast minority. Bottom line.....it's all good.

exactly. the right way is the way that you can use to make a good sound. if it sounds good it is good. and if you've listened to any range of slide players and/or good music in general, you can see that there are many ways to make a good sound. luckily in music, unlike religion and politics, its clear that marching in lockstep and "believing" in one method above all others is horsesh%t. all the ways of blocking discussed here can work.

Just play the damn thing!

Well now, that is getting right to the point! Agreed.

Edward Meisse wrote: Left hand blocking is perfectly legitimate. Some very good players, most often of the Hawaiian persuation have used it to good effect. You just can't argue with effectiveness and success. But I figure that there is a reason that it seems to be becoming increasingly rare, though I don't know and can't figure out, what it would be.

Jerry Byrd coined the term "P'tah" ... to describe the lifting (tilting) of the bar off one string ... as the next string was picked ... creating the audible illusion that the passage was being played on just one string ...

And using the tip of the bar to cover only the string sounding ...

And pulling the tip off the string that you want muted (trailing fingers kill the sound).

EX: From Hula Lady as played by JB ...

[tab]
E --- 8 --- 7 --- 5 --- 3 ---------- 7 --
C ------ 9 --- 7 --- 5 --- 2 ------------
A ---------------------------------------

E --- 8 --- 7 --- 5 ----------------- 8 --
C ------ 9 --- 7 --- 5 - 6 - 7------------
A ------------------------------7---------

E --- 12 --- 10 --- 8 --- 7 --------- 12 --- 10 --
C ------ 12 --- 11 --- 9 --- 7 --- 7 -------------
A ------------------------------------------------

E ------ 12 - 10 ----- 10 ------- 7 --- 8 ---
C ---------------- 11 -------- 7-------------
A --- 10 ----------------- 8 ---------- 7 ----
[/tab]

This can be played, of course ... using slants and the bar permanently resting on the strings ... using palm blocking ...

But the "P'tah" method ... makes this passage sound as if it's one unbroken line ...

As Jerry Byrd said ... a technique integral to Hawaiian music ... like weaving a needle in and out of a tapestry.

* Hope thats right ... I'm not too good at writin' tab ...

To constantly lift the bar just to go from position to position is pointless, unless there's a damn good reason for it, which there usually isn't.

Sorry, I just don't agree with that point of view.

I have always lifted the bar AND Palm blocked, AND pick blocked, depending on the circumstances. Primarily blocking with a combination of pick blocking and bar angling {"P'tah"} or fully lifting.
I think that lifting the bar WITHOUT blocking the strings behind it with the rest of ones fingers could be problematical. Lifting the bar by 'Rocking' the hand is how I think of it !
Baz

I use all 3 techniques (lifting, pick blocking, palm blocking) where it's required and would even use my di....ummm nose if I could. Each method has it's own sound.

Maybe there's an apples/oranges thing here-
I only have a lap steel, but I would think that your damping techniques would have to be quite different from a PSG, simply because much more bar movement on a non-pedal...true?

IMHO Gerard, you're quite correct.