The Steel Guitar Forum

What is today's waiting period to get a new ZumSteel if ordered now ?

I suppose this would best be answered by Bruce but there was no option to leave a message on his phone.

Thanks

About 14-18 months ...I have a D10 Hybrid I ordered in Feb and it will be ready around April 08 ..and I'm sure the longer you leave it the longer it will take.

Thanks Paddy ... appreciate it!

Amazing.

i have bought and sold several zums on this forum all like new condition waiting time about ten days
just a thought.

i waited approx 18 months before i got mine in 2006

well worth the wait.....

Your right Crowbear --- and I have another 2 at home to keep me company while I wait

Aye Paddy !
i had my first one to keep me warm while Bruce worked his magic

This is a subject that everyone has been talking about ! The question in my mind goes like this ! If i am making one of the top steel guitars in the world today ,and they are selling like hotcakes why wouldn't i have enough man power to get these guitars done in lets say four/six months ? Yes i do know it means more moneys going out but by the same token more money would be coming in right ? I know what some will say but you don't have enough skilled builders to go around and thats why the wait ! REALLY ? You mean to tell me that people can't be trained to build steel guitars or are they a dying breed that do ? Come on builders ''Man up '' !!!! You would sell more steel guitars and in business thats what you want isn't it ? Maybe i'm CRAZY but this is my thoughts ! Any other takers ?

here's my thoughts of late: i've never been a money making person with a high dollar job, so i'll never have a new steel again. i bought a new zum in '82, partly because the cost was more reasonable than the other choices. i'm glad i did, it's been a great tool to this day, still played on all my gigs regularly. i paid $2400 for it new...and only because my dad footed half the bill. i survive on disability (very minimal) due to my leukemia. i am amazed that so many pickers are affluent enough that they don't flinch at paying near $6000 for a new steel...however, more power to them....but i was priced out of the game long ago!

Gary Preston wrote: This is a subject that everyone has been talking about ! The question in my mind goes like this ! If i am making one of the top steel guitars in the world today ,and they are selling like hotcakes why wouldn't i have enough man power to get these guitars done in lets say four/six months ? Yes i do know it means more moneys going out but by the same token more money would be coming in right ? I know what some will say but you don't have enough skilled builders to go around and thats why the wait ! REALLY ? You mean to tell me that people can't be trained to build steel guitars or are they a dying breed that do ? Come on builders ''Man up '' !!!! You would sell more steel guitars and in business thats what you want isn't it ? Maybe i'm CRAZY but this is my thoughts ! Any other takers ?

I don't think that anybody is seriously making the argument that Mr. XYZ is actually spending all the time a customer waits, building just that one guitar.
Much of the wait is just back log... meaning other guitars previously ordered are being built and finished. Maybe the body builder (the one that makes the wood bodies) and other supplies are also back logged, asf...
While many guitars are still well worth the wait... that's not what makes it a better instrument, but the skills and materials used together with a good and sound design.

... J-D.

Gary,

There are all sorts of successful business models for building steel guitars. We all know the folks at Carter, MSA, Mullen, & GFI (to name just a few) make splendid guitars and if you need a first-rate guitar and you want it quickly you can't go wrong with any of these. They're out there and they're available and there are any number of quality steel guitar dealers scattered across the country with brand new guitars, set up in their showroom floor, ready and just waiting for you (and your checkbook). Don't want to wait? No problem.

But there will always be those builders that march to different beat... and perhaps for them bigger, or faster, isn't necessarily better.

Think on it - if you're a solo builder and you decide after a while to go out and hire two or three guys to help you crank out more guitars more quickly - suddenly you're not building guitars anymore your managing people. You get distanced from the thing that you love (actually building the guitar) and you end up spending more and more time on stuff like payroll, hassling with benefits like health insurance, and sorting out workplace issues.

Maybe money isn't the motivating factor for you as the builder? I'm sure there are people out there that take great satisfaction from building every single guitar, part by part, by themselves, from the ground up. Maybe Bruce Z, or Paul Franklin Sr. enjoy that kind of satisfaction. Or maybe they're perfectionists, or maybe a little bit of both? Maybe they enjoy working alone and for them two or three is a crowd? Who knows?

Personally, I think you really have to admire someone that is content doing what they're doing, being self-reliant, productive and successful, and at the same time (seemingly) content to live their life with the money that their chosen endeavor generates, while resisting the temptation to turn their business into something that generate faster end-product while (for them) sacrificing integrity or personal satisfaction. Perhaps not everyone's primary motivation is making a ton of money.

You are right though, it's hard waiting 18 months for a new guitar, especially in this fast paced world we live in. But for me, knowing that Bruce, or Paul, or whowever - painstakingly handcrafted a guitar that's been built specifically for me and knowing that it's something that will potentially last me a lifetime and give me hours upon hours (upon YEARS) of happiness.

I think it's a small price to pay and I'll happily take my place in line.

I'm sort of in the same position as Chris, though I don't play out anymore...
I bought the Zum I have in 1988, it's a very standard D-10, mica/aluminum necks, 8+5, nothing unusual in terms of tuning, setup. Never even tried
changing out the original pups. Never have changed the setup. The only things I've ever done to it is
adjust pedal height and knee lever tilt.
Sure I lube it every so often, make sure the changer
heads are smooth, always use the same string gauges...
My point here is that I've never had any mechanical
issues, almost no string breakage issues (brand choice will make the difference, depending on quality
control, which the string manufactuer may or may not
have).
And I think the main reason is because Bruce is critical in the way he sets up his guitars. I'm not
saying other builders aren't, but this is the make or
break point about how your guitar is going to do over
the long haul. And for some this is not neccesarily
of importance.
If it is, then waiting is worth it.
I wish I could afford one nice push/pull, Sho-Bud Pro II, or ZB, but I've just never been in the financial position to go there.
The good thing is I can concentrate on my playing and not be distracted by mechanical issues.
And for some that can be enough.

Joe.

Matt Elsen makes an important point - maybe some people aren't solely or even mostly in it just to make more money. I know from experience in operating catering companies that there's a huge, disproportional leap in paperwork and "management" functions when you start taking on full-time employees, and nowadays offering health insurance has become a logistical nightmare. Besides taking you away from what you like to do and turning you into a headache-cultivating involuntary bureaucrat, a slight change in scale can also require a huge change in cash flow management. Operating as a sole proprietor, and subcontracting by the piece, you can keep your cash flow in and out of one box (metaphorically), without the need to keep a year's or more "spare" capital floating between accounts.

I bought my first Zum in 82, I have my third now so Bruce and I have had quite a few nice converstations over the years at shows and over the phone, I don't profess to know him well but I am willing to bet that Matt's surmises as to why he chooses to operate his business like he does are spot on. I have been playing a good bit of mandolin the last 7 years. The top builders in the mandolin world ALL work alone completing about a dozen or so instruments a year, many getting upwards of $20,000 per instrument, most are not even accepting names on their waiting list these days the demand is so high. If you can get on a waiting list 3 to five years is not unheard of for a wait. I am sure this same scenario is also played out in the world of high end instruments of most any type. So my point is, with high end instruments priced either side of 5 grand and the longest wait I have heard of at around 18 months the steel guitar world seems to be a lot closer to filling the demand than many others, we should consider ourselves lucky because even the somewhat less expensive guitars that are quickly available and in stock around the country are really fine guitars and good lightly used Zums and Mullen etc show up often enough for those that need instant gratification.

Well, correct me if I am wrong, in '06 zum made 40 guitar's, based off the serial numbers issued on there web. that is alot. But if you have all the parts there ready to go, you only do mica, this would speed things up some. I would think the wait time would be sooner. They are very good guitars and if you can weather the wait you will be rewarded.

Please allow me to play "devil's advocate" for a minute. A couple of presumptions to start. A..most all of the excellent steels in production today are completely built by one person.B.Most of us probably feel especially privileged that that is the case.C.. a number of "manufacturers" have experienced inconsistantcy issues due to the fact that more than one person was involved in the building process(I admit that I even found myself thinking once that "I got a "XYZ" guitar when "so and so" was working there". Another more business-oriented consideration...if a business employs workers you may ultimately have labor problems that you would never expect..so maybe keep it small and simple and down to one person)(maybe a family member or two??).I've had the pleasure over the years to know personally many of these craftsmen and being a "one-man show" is just the way they like it. So...let them biscuits cook and enjoy smellin' them till they're done. And,by the way, if you are also into acoustic guitars and happen to have about $15,000 bucks handy(and a few YEARS of time on your side contact Jim Olsen in Minnesota and know you will be getting the most awesome flat top you can own...kinda the same idea here with steels maybe???....Respectfully submitted. RK

A Scheerhorn dobro has a 5 year wait these days and will set you back north of $6000. I waited 2 years for my Guernsey dobro so 18 months doesn't sound too bad. I gotta say though that its hard to muster the patience when you're waitin. When I asked Roy Thomas how long it'd take to get a lefty Pedalmaster he said 4-6 weeks. Now that's my kind of waiting list! Great discussion. What a cool forum this is! - Dave

Am i to assume that going by what i see some of you guys post that if you have more than one guy building a guitar that the quality may not be up to snuff ??? Is that saying that you can't have several people building guitars and if you do you may get a so so guitar ? You see i look at the whole thing as being in the manufacturing business for over 40 years and still producing a quality product . Thats why i see it as if you are in a major market then be sure that you can meet the supply and demand . Yes i will have to wait along with the rest of you but i don't have to like it ! P.S. our company has over 1100 employees buy the way !

If you build a product the same exact way all the time, an assembly line process is great and certainly people can be well trained to do their specific task. I used to take care of building most of the student guitars at Bruce's shop and it worked out quite well. Other than color, they are all the same and they are simple so no big deal.

Efficiently custom building a pro guitar with who knows what kind of setup or trim options and making it work perfectly is something a bit different, especially when the funding or lack thereof is coming directly out of your pocket. Would you pay someone a living wage to try to learn it all in hopes they would stick around and not mess up too much (or cut off their arm or steal you blind), or just go ahead and do it yourself in about half the time?? It isn't at all like working for a large company where if there is a $10,000 mistake it won't really hurt too bad and everyone still manages to get a paycheck, vacation, holidays, sick time, retirement,.....

Unless it is your goal to build a large organization and you are the managerial type, it's probably better to just work 60 or 70 hours a week by yourself so you have complete control, build as many guitars as you can, not work yourself to death, try to live a good life and be happy!

"There is a fine line between perfect and ruined."

I can certainly appreciate the fact that if I need to talk to the builder of my guitar, when I call ZumSteel I get the man that built it from the ground up. As Bruce has said before, since his name is on it, he wants it to be right. And trust me, it is.

I'm firmly convinced that in order to get a pedal steel that will have a decent resale value in the future you have to buy custom shop. That means a one/two person shop. That also means that you will have to wait. These cheap steel guitars that are being produced today will have a very poor resale value on the future market. I wouldn't buy one. Zum steels will ALWAYS appreciate. Same with Fulawkas. By cheap, get cheap. Mandolins and dobros are a good example.

Kevin Hatton wrote:I'm firmly convinced that in order to get a pedal steel that will have a decent resale value in the future you have to buy custom shop. That means a one/two person shop. That also means that you will have to wait. These cheap steel guitars that are being produced today will have a very poor resale value on the future market. I wouldn't buy one. Zum steels will ALWAYS appreciate. Same with Fulawkas. By cheap, get cheap. Mandolins and dobros are a good example.

Cheap steel guitars? I didn't know there were any.
And besides a few historic (big name player owned) Bigsby's and Emmons PP's and lately a few Sho-Bud's, I haven't seen many PSG's appreciate in value...

... J-D.

I'm reminded of the story of the guy who invented a new type of watch. When asked how much he was selling it for he said " A million dollars". Then he was asked how many do expect to sell at that price ? TO which he replied "I only have to sell one".
Two words that DO NOT go together :GOOD and Cheap I have a '87 model D-10 Keyless with 8 & 5. Sounds great and plays smooth & easy. RARELY breaks a string too.

And besides a few historic (big name player owned) Bigsby's and Emmons PP's and lately a few Sho-Bud's, I haven't seen many PSG's appreciate in value...

If it's a good instrument, it will appreciate...if the market demands it. Example: Push/pulls and 'Buds are now bringing about twice what they sold for originally, but most of the MSA's (which were built assembly-line fashion, and in vastly greater numbers), have also recently appreciated, and they too have almost reached that "twice what they sold for originally" category. Guitars that are purely collector pieces (like the Bigsby) have gone through the roof, but they're the exception. It's for nostalgic/historic reasons (and because so few were made) that they're valuable - not because they were a good guitar.