stringmaster refinishing

Ben Godard · Post by **Ben Godard** » 4 Aug 2007 9:20 pm

I have all original 1957 D8 blonde stringmaster that is an awesome guitar. However as you might expect, the finish on it definately has plenty of scratches, dings, etc. The chrome looks good as I cleaned it up a bit. I disasembled the whole guitar and cleaned everything from a to Z and cleaned all the electronics with contact cleaner as well. It's absolutely flawless as far as playing but the looks are not the best.
My question is if I refinish this guitar, Will it be devalued even though it's looks will be much better after refinishing.
The reason I am asking is because I will probrably eventually sell it. I myself prefer a nice looking aged guitar but not scratched and beat up looking. However some people love that beat up nostalgic look.
I have refinished a telecaster before even though its's not easy. (Especially using original 50's nitro laquer paint)
I will leave this guitar as it is if its worth more the way it is.

Any suggestions.

Mike Neer · Post by **Mike Neer** » 4 Aug 2007 9:33 pm

Leave it original if you don't intend to keep it. Always worth more with original finish.

Charley Wilder · Post by **Charley Wilder** » 5 Aug 2007 5:47 am

What Mike said. Absolutely!!

John Dahms · Post by **John Dahms** » 5 Aug 2007 6:45 am

Refinishing can cut the value in half. Common sense has nothing to do with vintage collectibles. When an instrument is beat, it is advertised as having "mojo." When it's refinished, it's restored but being "mojo- free" it will never be worth as much as even 2" of original finish left on bare wood.
Hell, people are paying extra to buy "relic" model guitars that come pre-beat with instant mojo, like faded torn blue jeans(I can't wait for car manufactures to get a hold on that concept, selling new cars with factory dents, busted mirrors and faded paint).
A '57 Stringmaster is not a Champ or a Deluxe, it's the high end of steel guitars and will sell even beat up if it has original components that work.

Doug Beaumier · Post by **Doug Beaumier** » 5 Aug 2007 8:57 am

My question is if I refinish this guitar, Will it be devalued even though it's looks will be much better after refinishing.

Yes, it will be devalued. An original finish, even chipped and scratched, is always worth more than new paint. Some owners don't care about value and they just want a new looking guitar. But if value is a concern to you, leave the finish original.

Michael Johnstone · Post by **Michael Johnstone** » 5 Aug 2007 9:19 am

Interesting question. While it's generally true that you should leave it alone if it's not too far gone,there is a point where a restoration is in order.Case in point is my T-8 which is for sale at the moment. When I got it,it had already been very poorly re-finished and had large cavities hacked all the way thru the guitar - presumably to hold switches,pots and additional electronics at one time.Since the case was not original,all the hardware was there and I wanted a nice looking T-8,was willing and able to do the work,I had the world's best guitar paint shop right down the street,all the ingredients were there for an argument in favor of a complete restoration.Not some custom thing that never was - but a totally showroom,totally stock job right down to the paint color.I even found 3 NOS 24" Stringmaster fretboards on E-Bay that had been ordered from Fender by some guy in the early 60s through a radio repair shop here in L.A. and were never picked up.They were still in the original wrapping paper. To the naysayers I say if car buffs can take a rusted out 57 Chevy,search out the parts,do a complete showroom level restoration and take first place at a car show - why isn't it OK to do it with a Stringmaster.All this relic crap is fer knuckleheads who haven't lived long enough to have put 40 years of real bar room scars on their guitar. What's the problem with this guitar? You tell me....

Doug Beaumier · Post by **Doug Beaumier** » 5 Aug 2007 9:37 am

Michael, Since your Stringmaster had already been poorly refinished when you got it... sure, why not strip it and refinish it again. (by the way, it looks terrific!) As far as old Cars, the rules are different, for some reason. Cars, like houses, appreciate in value when repainted and refurbished with new parts. When it comes to vintage musical instruments, the rules of the antique market apply. When antique furniture is refinished it's value is severely diminished. Same with old instruments.

Rick Collins · Post by **Rick Collins** » 5 Aug 2007 9:45 am

Right, Michael Johnstone.

I would actually pay more for that T-8 Stringmaster that you have refinished, than one that has been beaten-up.

There is only one Willie Nelson; and I don't want to be him anyway.

This is still something I can't figure out:
I have a violin made in Genoa, Italy in 1907. This year it is 100 years old, and it's finish is better than all of the Stringmasters that I have ever seen that were made 50 years later.

Now why is this?

Martin Huch · Post by **Martin Huch** » 5 Aug 2007 10:11 am

DON`T DO IT !!
Look at the prices of other vintage Fender guitars like Strats and Tellies. Original finishes - even with heavy scratches are two to five times higher in value than
refinished instruments. Beside that I belong to those people,
who love every scare and scratch, that an old instrument got during it`s live onstage !! Such an instrument tells stories.......just listen.

Doug Beaumier · Post by **Doug Beaumier** » 5 Aug 2007 10:15 am

The old Fender nitro finishes (on the steels and on the regular solid body guitars, pre-1968) wore off fairly easy, from what I have seen. Today's solid body guitars have very thick poly finishes, and today's finishes will never show the kind of wear we see on the guitars of the 1950s and early 60s. That look... bare spots, worn edges, and scratches showing bare wood... that is good, honest player wear, and that is what we expect to see in a guitar from that era. Of course we would all prefer an original nitro finish in excellent condition, and such a guitar always sells for a premium.

John Dahms · Post by **John Dahms** » 5 Aug 2007 10:34 am

Mr. Johnstone did the right thing. He took a used up guitar and gave it another 50 years. Restoring a guitar that has been already refinished is fine, but refinishing an original finish can have serious repercussions to the value if there is any other choice. Now just suppose 15 years ago you (or let's say- a friend) had a '59 Les Paul Sunburst with a beat finish and decided to refinish it. He was warned that it would devalue it but did it anyway. Guitar looks good, time marches on and he decides to sell it only then finding out that these guitars today being worth what they are have to pass a lot more scrutinty to get a buyer to pay what he will have to. Potential buyers are put off because it may mask other non-original issues and the easy 80-90 grand that that model would sell for becomes a third that much and hard to convince a buyer. Why? Because a few thousanths of an inch of lacquer has changed.
I'm not saying it is right, it just is.

Doug Beaumier · Post by **Doug Beaumier** » 5 Aug 2007 11:08 am

Vintage steel guitars will never reach the astronomical values that some vintage guitars have. But certain steel guitars will continue to go up in value and will be sought after by players/collectors. Stringmaster, fry pan, Model B, Bigsby are a few that come to mind. Within a few years the prices could reach 5K to 10K, or more. A refinish will cost an owner 30% to 50% of that. That's painful. When the prices get high, buyers nitpick and look for ways to get the price down.

Stephan Miller · Post by **Stephan Miller** » 5 Aug 2007 11:34 am

Any faithful and immaculate restoration of a trashed-out vintage article-- instrument, car, house etc.-- has a mojo (created by skill & devotion) of its own, in my book. I happened to see Mike's T-8 up close last month....jaw-droppingly clean. Compare its "mojo" to another with the same cherry appearance that was ignored under a bed for 50 years...I mean, exactly what is the mojo of neglect?

I'm not that much of a Stringmaster guy, but it called to me anyway.

--Steve

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 5 Aug 2007 11:40 am

You can get all the refinishing supplies you need at:
www.reranch.com
They have all the fender colors in nitrocellulose lacquer as per original.
They have a tinted clear coat that is great for "weathering" the new finish.

When I got this guitar, it was painted blue, not once, but twice. I sure wouldn't want to keep it that way.

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 5 Aug 2007 11:46 am

If it has never been refinished, and just has the expected wear and tear of old Stringmasters, then leave it as is. If you want a nice looking guitar sell the Stringmaster to a collector and get the good looking guitar you want. You might find a Stringmaster in better shape, or one that has already been nicely refinished. Or buy something more recent.

But Mike did the right thing with his. It was so far gone it probably had lost most of its collectors value anyway. By restoring it so nicely, he added to its value, especially among player/collectors, who like you value a nice looking working instrument. For Stringmasters there are actually two markets: collectors who will turn their noses up at a restored instrument, and players who will pay extra for a well restored working instrument.

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 5 Aug 2007 11:55 am

By the way, my old ivory D8 Stringmaster has completely lost the Fender decal on the front. Should I replace it? It is a little beat up, but the hardware is in good shape. I got a good deal on it because someone had converted the four legs to three. That didn't bother me, because it put it in my price range, and it has no effect on the way it plays - in fact it made it more stable on uneven floors. If I ever want to sell it, I can restore the four legs. The new middle hole under the front neck will always be there, but maybe that will only have a small effect on the value. But what about the decal?

Ben Godard · Post by **Ben Godard** » 5 Aug 2007 12:01 pm

My guitar isn't in that bad of condition. I guess I will leave it as it is. Everyone has told me that I'd be crazy to repaint it. One guy even told me to call him before I painted it. That he might offer me a deal. What everyone says about my guitar is true. People do love the worn out look better than a new look. And it does show that the guitar has got mileage and history. Who knows, someone famous may have even played my guitar once upon a time. I do know that it origianlly came from Texas.

Thanks everyone

Ben

Doug Beaumier · Post by **Doug Beaumier** » 5 Aug 2007 12:25 pm

To get an idea of what refinishing does to vintage value:

Below are two completed eBay auctions for 1966-67 Fender Jazz basses. The two basses are very similar, except one has been refinished, and the other one has it's original beat up finish, bare wood showing, and looks generally rougher. Both have original electronics. The pick guards are different colors. Oher than that the two instruments are very close. The major difference is the refinish.

The beat up one, original rough finish, sold for about 4K ----> CLICK

The nicely Refinished one sold for $2300 ---->CLICK

57% less due to a refinish.

John Dahms · Post by **John Dahms** » 5 Aug 2007 12:39 pm

To answer David Dogett, I would not have a problem with replacing the logo if it is missing. If the hood was missing off a cool car a repro would be better than no hood to make it look complete.
If you can find a source for an early Fender logo for a Stringmaster or Pro that is.
The 3 to 4 leg thing has its merits too as you pointed out and since steel guitar people are a little more sensible when it comes to function it may not offend a buyer the way modifications would offend a Strat or Tele buyer. Plus it's under the guitar.

Charley Wilder · Post by **Charley Wilder** » 5 Aug 2007 12:41 pm

This is an interesting discussion. It comes up on every guitar forum at some time or another. Although I advised leaving it the way it is, I can see a bit of everyone's point. If it becomes a situation where the instrument is virtually unplayable or where there is so much body and/or cosmetic damage I would certainly consider a restoration. Especially if I was going to keep it. That's the key to deciding for me. Am I going to sell it or keep it?
As far comparing it to other collectibles as far as restoration goes it's apples and oranges. There are no rules except the market. It doesn't have to make sense.
Soon after I moved to New Hampshire my favorite guitar store had a Stringmaster D8 like mine except it was a different color. They had taken it in on trade and were trying to sell it. They ended up virtually giving it away after displaying it for almost a year. This was in l989. Ain't it funny how things change?

Ron Randall · Post by **Ron Randall** » 5 Aug 2007 6:12 pm

Michael,

That is the guitar I bought from eBay. I won't do that again. IT did have that sound, though. That is the guitar I learned on, and I am glad it made it to your capable hands.

Beautiful restoration.

Ron

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 6 Aug 2007 7:48 am

I bought this guitar new in 1954. When I started on pedals, I sold it. A few years ago I had the opportunity to buy it back. It was in a rather sorrowful condition.

This is the same guitar after I got through with it.

Which one would you rather play?

Jeff Au Hoy · Post by **Jeff Au Hoy** » 6 Aug 2007 7:58 am

To be honest, I'd much rather play the one in the first photo (pre-restoration).

Guitar in the first photo looks like it sounds GOOD so it was PLAYED.

Guitar in the second photo looks like it just sits there smiling and looking pretty.

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 6 Aug 2007 8:05 am

That's what I do best; smile and look pretty.

Bill Creller · Post by **Bill Creller** » 6 Aug 2007 8:55 am

I guess I'm not a "mojo" believer. If it plays OK, and doesn't bother you about how it looks, just play it. A re-finish job is a lot of work, and can be pricey if you have to have all the parts re-chromed. I'm doing a D6 for someone, and it needs the works, like removing around three coats of various colors of paint, and the parts are in for re-chrome. It was butchered a little under the pickup plates, but not too drastic.

The parts for my dual-pro are in the chrome shop, like $313 bucks to fix and re-plate.
So if you can tolerate it as is, just play it