The Steel Guitar Forum

Hey all, I'm looking for some advice on a possible purchase I might be making for my first double-neck pedal steel. The deal is for a full rig - double-neck steel, two cases (one for guitar and one for hardware), Peavey Nashville 400, and a Goodrich volume pedal. Just talked to the seller and he seems like a good guy and will be bringing me the guitar to try out tomorrow. There's no model on the guitar but he said he thinks it's a custom made guitar from the 60s. He said it plays well but could probably use a set up. I've attached some pictures he just sent that he had from a while ago. You can't see much but you can get an idea of what it looks like. Any advice would be greatly appreciated - things to look out for, questions to ask him, etc. I'm new fairly new to pedal steel and am not at all familiar with double-necks. Oh yeah, he's asking $1100 for it all. It seems almost too good to be true which is why I'm slightly skeptical. Thanks....

Picture filePicture file

Time for the ShoBud gurus to come forth. Deal looks like it has possibilities...

Extremely difficult to give you any useful advice. Where in Mass are you located (and where is the guitar?) This is a situation where money spent on bringing a knowledgeable steel guy over to look at it would be well worth it----if the guitar is good, you would still be ahead of the game, if it is a money hole you would save yourself from being out big bucks. There are some names I can give you in the Boston area, the Worcester area and the Northhampton area.

One of the names Jon may have for you is Tommy Cass, who lives in Baldwinsville, MA. I recently bought my first D-10 (an Emmons LaGrande) and Tom has done some work on it for me (replaced pick-ups, new fretboards), tweaking the underside. He is a true master craftsman and a heckuva nice guy... and going to his shop is like visiting a steel museum. So, if you decide to buy, and find it needs some work or a tune-up (which it undoubtedly will), you might consider giving Tom a call.

I'm in Somerville, MA. I've heard great things about Tommy Cass but haven't met him yet. Anyone have any contact info. for him? I basically know one other steel player here who I'll probably give a call to soon. Before really considering this deal though, I guess it would be helpful to know what my options are for buying a double-neck, as far as price goes. What is the general price range for these? Thanks guys...

My Boston area friend Carl Phillips traded in his ShoBud LDG for a Fessenden D-10 with my Worcester area friend.....Tommy Cass. HERE is Tommy.

Dave, huge question. Just out of curiosity I did a search in the "Instruments for Sale" section on "D-10" and turned up 250 posts! That might be a good starting place to get a sense of overall prices. Another strategy would be to post in the "Wanted to Buy" section for a used D-10 at a reasonable price. Finally, you might want to consider a several year old Carter or GFI, which seem to run in the $1800 to $2300 range. The $1100 for the amp/footpedal/D-10 this gentleman is offering seems really inexpensive.

My gut feeling is to avoid a 'custom made' pedal steel with no name on it, made in the 1960's. The mechanisms are probably single raise, single lower. I'd say... keep looking, and buy a newer pedal steel.

I'm With Doug. SONNY.

Listen to these guys!
They know what they are talking about. I bought my first steel without knowing anything and ended up old Sidekick 3 and 1. Not a great bargain!
Best advice I've seen on this forum is to go for a used professional model name brand, such as Carter, Fessenden, GFI, etc. Easy to get parts, easy to change set-ups, easy to sell.
Take my advice for what its worth as I'm fairly new to the instrument myself.
Regards,
Joe

Dave I agree with Doug and Sonny.....I'd suggest a D-10 with 8+5 too!

I agree. As a beginner, one thing you don't need is a "pig in a poke". An "unknown quantity" in unknown condition could be great, and it could also be a nightmare.

i'm w: Doug too
i'd be wary of an unknown brand custom built from the 60s
aside from bein archaic, there's that risk of gettin' a Frankensteel
(those 2 pics show nothin')
No way Ray
psgs have a come a long way in 40 years Dave
nowadays, there are many good, modern, reliable, brand name used models available
my favorite authorized steel dealers put aside, this forum is the best place i know of, to get one.
Fo'bros can't mess around
it's a family thing like the cosa nostra dig ?
yep, i'm w: Roger too
a D10 w: 8 pedals & at least 5 knee levers
you'll need to save up some more $$$ Dave to get there
i hope the itch ain't too bad....

Advice on buying a double 10........Don't! Try a S-12 first...JH in Va.

Don't purchase anything that's old and doesn't have a name on it. No telling what this thing from the 60's is. If you have 1100.00 to spend on a guitar, I'd pick up a little MSA Classic S-10 with 3 & 4 or maybe a older model LDG Sho-Bud. BMI has several good S-10's on the market also. As far as D-10's, I imagine it would be hard to find a real good one for 1100.00 that's ready to play. As a beginner, I recommend a good solid S-10 with at least 3 pedals and 4 knee levers. That'll be enough to keep you busy for a long time. You can learn a lot of C6th on a S-10, E9th tuning also. It's there except for the real low end anyway. Just my .02 here!

Your Forum Brothers are giving you good advice - avoid older steels with no brand name. Many of these are mechanical nightmares at best. Or at least have somebody like Tommy Cass inspect it before buying it.
You sometimes see an older MSA double ten for $1200 to $1500 and they can be pretty good guitars. Look for one with the aluminum frame around the pickup, and at least 4 knee levers.
Or, to get started, a used, name brand single ten such as MSA, BMI, Carter, GFI, or others will get you off to a good start, and keep you busy for a long time. Good luck finding a guitar, and stay here at the Forum for lots of information when you begin the learning process.
Larry J.

Despite the "Hype" on how wonderful old shobuds are, They weigh a ton, their mechanisms are shonky, and limiting. Save your cash and invest in a newer Carter or something similar.

Advice.....start working out at a gym....before you can carry it far....

Damien

Get a guitar that's been built in the last ten years (at most), so you can play it and not have to work on it. As much as everyone likes the old classic guitars like Sho-Buds and Emmons push/pulls, if they aren't kept-up by their previous owners (the older the guitar the more owners) they can be high-maintenance. But, some players are born tinkerers. Good luck !

I have to disagree about a Sho~Bud being wonky tuning-wise, especially the mid-70's two-hole puller design. My Pro 1 is way more stable in the tuning department that either one of my former Carters or the MSA lacquer Universal. Additionally, my Sho~Bud undercarriage is the most elementary I've ever seen; a toddler could figure out how to change a pull. With the other guitars, I sometimes had to pull off about 3-4 rods just to change the one I wanted. Not a problem on a Sho~Bud. The rods aren't stacked and secured in single bellcranks, like some of the newer guitars. Flame away.

I`m with Chris,my ProI is as steady as Gibralter,gets played every day and I don`t have to touch the changer tuners for months at a time.It`s every bit as stable as my Fulawka.Unless you really bang away on the pedals,you won`t be disappointed with a well-maintained Bud.
Tom

The original post does not mention any brand names. The picture shows early Sho-Bud keyheads on the guitar, but there is no name on the guitar, and the owner says it's probably "custom made" from the 1960's and it "could probably use a set up". This all spells trouble. This could be a home made PSG with a mix of different parts. It is very likely a single-raise, single-lower guitar. I don't care what company or individual made this guitar, I still say... keeping looking, and buy a newer pedal steel, especially if you are a beginning player.

Chris, those two-hole puller Pro Is are reputed to be the best of the Sho-Buds. I don't think anyone is claiming there weren't some very good Sho-Buds. The issue is more that they weren't consistently good through all years and models. And many of them that might have been decent in their day are pretty old and beat up by now.

Thanks for the advice guys. I just checked it out the other day and decided to pass on it. It actually looked and sounded great but it was very apparent that it was going to need a ton of work - missing knee lever, rusted hardware, pedal problems, etc. Turns out it was too good to be true. Looks like I'll be saving up for a newer D-10. Still got plenty to keep me busy on my Carter S-10 in the meantime.