On multi-instrumenting

Aaron Harms · From: Missouri, USA

So bear with me, this is my first "electronics" thread post.

I'm currently playing all the electric guitars in a singer/songwriter duo--he plays acoustic guitar (way better than me) and I play by turns, a Les Paul Signature and Fender 400. I ALSO, and this is the crux of the matter, play bass. I used to use a Gibson Ripper, and then, having borrowed a BOSS multi-effects processor with an amazing octave down function, have since started playing bass lines on the Les Paul as well. All I get is complements'--"that totally sounds like a bass", etc. We cover the gamut, so I end up using clean and feedback level crunch, as well as everything in between.

My issue is with the amp--Currently an Ampeg Gemini II, with a single 15. About 20-25 watts, and I rarely get the volume up over 4.

I'm considering switching amps, because it's not what it used to be, thanks to stuff breaking and being replaced with non-vintage parts. Simply, it's lost some tone, and I ALWAYS have issues keeping the tones for the 3 instruments dialed in for the whole night.

So, I'm considering moving to a bass amp instead--the one that immediately comes to mind is the Ampeg B15, portaflex. The vintage ones are only about 30 watts, but the new ones are about 100.

My question, then, is what feedback more experienced players have for me. I can't haul a bigger rig, I'm devoted to tubes, and I need something that can handle the low frequencies/notes, as well as the steel/regular guitar parts. And of course I'm on a budget Very Happy

Thanks for any help you can offer!

Aaron

John Groover McDuffie · From: LA California, USA

A good tech should be able to keep that Gemini II sounding wonderful, I should think.

P Gleespen · From: Toledo, OH USA

I agree.

Sure, it's not as much fun as buying a new piece of gear, but what is?

You should be able to get that thing back up to snuff no problem. It's just a matter of finding a good amp guy.
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Patrick

Aaron Harms · From: Missouri, USA

..It's not that I ultimately dislike the amp, it's that it doesn't handle the bass notes at the volume that I need the bassnotes to work. Lower "practice" volumes work, but on stage, particularly bigger ones, it tends to rattle/distort, etc.

So my new question would be, is there a way to modify the amp (in non-destructive ways) to accomodate both "instruments"?

The pedal steel tends to need a boost as well, but other than that, sounds brilliant. In fact, if I just swap between steel and bass, I don't have to do much knob twiddling at all...but it's still at low volumes.

THanks for the help, guys

A

John Groover McDuffie · From: LA California, USA

Installing a different speaker, like a EV, Black Widow, or JBL would be a good non-destructive way to improve the bass-handling capacity and response of the amp.

Neil Harms · From: Ionia, Missouri, USA

I bet we can find some different speakers to try pretty fast. You know the number! Your Bro.

Also, I'm inclined to agree with the other posters. If you're tied to tubes and budget minded, you're probably better off tweaking the amp you've got. My two bits....

Kevin Hatton · From: Buffalo, N.Y.

Unfortunatly budget and good tone are at opposite ends of the specrum. Fender Custom Twin 15 is the answer.

Rick Alexander · From: Florida, USA, R.I.P.

Vintage tube amp repair and restoration requires a tech who knows vintage amps inside and out - and has good sources of NOS and genuine replacement parts.
My amp tech - tube amp genius Andy Oleas - restored a Gemini II for me and it sounds great.
You could always ship the amp to him for repair.
He gets it done fast and right.
There's a pic of this amp and others he has restored - here.

RA
BIG STEEL

Jon Light (deceased) · From: Saugerties, NY

Just as a side note, I did a PSG session using the studio's flip top B15 with a Holy Grail in front and the sound was excellent. I hadn't known what a good sounding amp that was until then. Sure made me wish I hadn't sold my SB-12 in '75 (for $40 but I did get to eat for another couple of weeks).

Mike Wheeler · From: Delaware, Ohio, USA

The Gemini2 was a 30 watt amp. If rejunvinating it won't get you what you need, then I'd recommend a 50 watt Ampeg 15 in.spkr. amp. The B15 flip-top tube amp is a good amp used by session bass players for many years. It would probably be a good choice for you.

I would put a Black Widow in it though, if it will fit. That would give you a little bit better high end clarity for the guitar and steel, and a nice tight low end.

They aren't cheap, though. Smile

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Best regards,
Mike

Mike Wheeler · From: Delaware, Ohio, USA

Here you go, Aaron! Click on this link.

Ampeg B15S or this one, Ampeg B100R
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Best regards,
Mike

Jim Sliff · From: Lawndale California, USA

IMO (having been in almost an identical playing situation) it's a losing proposition trying to use one stage amp for guitar AND bass. OF your mentioned choices, the only one I'd consider would be the vintage Ampeg B-15 (the high-powered one shouldn't even be considered in this case), which happens to make a great guitar amps.

But generally, since it sounds like you're in a low-volume situation, I think you should go with a small tube amp for guitar - a Princeton, Deluxe, etc. - and a small Bass amp. The SWR Baby Blue is my favorite small bass rig - two 8" drivers plus a smaller one for highs, and it'll shake the floor. An amazing bass amp for its size and configuration.

But using one tube amp, you'll either have lousy guitar tone or lousy bass tone unless you can find something else like the B-15...and I've looked for years.
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No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

Since you're talking duo-type duty - I presume fairly low volume - I second (or third or fourth) the idea of an Ampeg fliptop. I personally like the SB-12 a bit better for guitar, and they're generally cheaper, but a B-15 is also a great sounding but warm and clean guitar amp. They're great for jazz guitar, and of course, they wrote the book for studio bass, to my tastes. Neither of these are exactly cheap, however. Especially B-15's are getting pretty valuable. Another issue is the lack of reverb - easily rectified with something like a Holy Grail, though.

The biggest problem I have had using guitar amps for bass is the open-back cabinet. I think it's possible to make a lot of guitar amps work for bass with a good speaker in a closed or very slightly ported cabinet, but an open-back cab like on your Gemini II just doesn't cut it for bass, again to my tastes. In addition, it's very tough on the speaker to run bass into an open-back cab.

With all this said, for lower-volume duo/trio gigs with heavy multi-instrumenting - steel, guitar, banjo, and a new Fender Jaguar Bass VI, which was called a baritone guitar until recently - I use a Pod 2 (Deluxe or Twin Reverb emulations) into an Ampeg BA-112, which is a current production solid-state bass amp that they have tried to get near the fliptop sound. I think they succeeded pretty well, although it's obviously not exactly the same. It warms up the Pod a lot, but still retains good clarity as long as it's not pushed too hard. The cab has a small circular port in the back. I'm a lifelong tube amp user, but this floats my boat in many multi-instrument situations like this. To me, I need the modeler for guitar and steel, but bass sounds fine straight in.

A new BA-112 is $300 in Musicians Friend or other online source, I found a used backup for $200. Check out the Harmony Central reviews, I don't think it's just me that likes this little bass amp. A Pod 2 can usually be picked up for around $100 used. I know many don't like modelers, but I think they can be made to work well, and the versatility in massively multi-instrument usage makes them real useful, again to my tastes.

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