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Topic: 7th String Change |
Wayne D. Clark
From:
Montello Wisconsin, USA
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Posted 15 May 2007 2:54 pm |
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As I look over some chord charts I notice that there are no changes on the 7th F# string, on the other hand there are changes on the 7th String. Jimmy Day has one so does Paul Franklin and Tommy White, but Buddy Emmons does not. I notice that those who have the 7th Change it is in conjuction with the 1st string raising the F# to G. however there are other variations like Jim Lindsey has the F# on the 7th lowered to "E" I wonder if when my insterment was set up whether it was incorrect because my RkL raises my 1st string to G but lowers my 6th to G. But no change on the 7th. Seems like the 7th string should be raised to "G" like the 1st string.
Desert Rose S10 3/5
Goodrich 120
Nashville 400 |
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Dustin Rigsby
From:
Parts Unknown, Ohio
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Posted 15 May 2007 3:40 pm
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Wayne,
It is a common change to raise 1st string F# to G# , 2nd string from d# to e and the 7th string f# to G# . Co-dependants,as with tunings, are a matter of personal preference though. There are really no Standard co-dependants.I use a variation of Dan Tyacks' co-dependant.Whatever works for your playing style. |
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Al Marcus
From:
Cedar Springs,MI USA (deceased)
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Posted 15 May 2007 6:49 pm
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Wayne-Lowering that 7th string F# to E gets it out of the way for strumming. Some players do that for various reassons. Just use what you want and are mor comfortable with.That is what makes the pedal guitar so nice it can be so individial and versatile..al.
_________________
Michigan (MSGC)Christmas Dinner and Jam on my 80th Birthday.
My Email.. almarcus@cmedic.net
My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus |
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Brint Hannay
From:
Maryland, USA
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Posted 15 May 2007 6:59 pm
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Dustin, if you want to use it, the term is "copedent". And yes, that is spelled correctly, per the word's creator, Tom Bradshaw. I prefer to just use "setup".
The 1st, 2nd, and 7th change is commonly called the "Franklin" lever, as Paul Franklin invented it (I think). (The Franklin pedal is a different change.) That's pretty common these days, though not quite "standard". I've played happily for 23 years without it.
Personally, as far as a 7th string change is concerned, I like raising only the 7th to G, as it gives a 7th chord with pedals down, leaving the F# note on the 1st string for a 13th chord, or a melody note against the 7th chord.
But as Al said, individual preferences in tuning and setup are part of what makes the pedal steel such an intriguing and fun instrument. |
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Al Marcus
From:
Cedar Springs,MI USA (deceased)
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Posted 15 May 2007 8:00 pm
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Brint-Good post. I noticed you raise the F# on the 7th string to G. I myself do that too and for one of the same reasons, pedals down and you get A6 to A7. Nice sound. Handy....al.
_________________
Michigan (MSGC)Christmas Dinner and Jam on my 80th Birthday.
My Email.. almarcus@cmedic.net
My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus |
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Bobby Boggs
From:
Upstate SC.
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Posted 15 May 2007 8:35 pm
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| Quote: |
| The 1st, 2nd, and 7th change is commonly called the "Franklin" lever, as Paul Franklin invented it (I think). |
He didn't invent them.But did make them famous.
Paul has 1/2 stops on strings 1 and 7. Though it's not shown in the set-up listed on the Forum. |
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Larry Strawn
From:
Golden Valley, Arizona, R.I.P.
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Posted 15 May 2007 8:56 pm Question?
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Not to high jack this thread, but since Mr. Marcus mentioned a6-a7 chords I wanted to ask this question.
I drop my 6th string G# down to F#, with my lack of theory I'm going by what my ears are telling me, with pedals down and this lower I've been calling this a 7th chord. Am I even in the ball park here? I know it's a nice sweet mellow chord.
Thanks
Larry
_________________
Carter SD/10, 4&5 Hilton Pedal, Peavey Sessions 400, Peavey Renown 400, Home Grown Eff/Rack
"ROCKIN COUNTRY" |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 15 May 2007 8:59 pm
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When I started playing, the "factory standard" copedent from most manufacturers included raising the 1st and 7th strings a half step from F# to G. The full step changes became popular in the 80's and 90's, as Paul Franklin's recording career took off.
That's how I remember it, anyway. I was drinking at the time, so I might have missed something. 
I don't have any changes on my 1st string. I raise the 7th string to G on the same lever that lowers the 2nd string to D. It's wierd, I know, but I'm used to it.
_________________
-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 16 May 2007 2:21 am
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| I have the 7th string raise a half tone (F# to G) on the knee lever that I lower the 2nd string and also lower the 9th string. I've had that knee lever set up since my Franklin was new in 81. |
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Larry Behm
From:
Mt Angel, Or 97362
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Posted 16 May 2007 4:11 am
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I raise the 7th string a half tone and a whole tone on the opposite knee lever. Not a major part of my playing but both have several nice applictions.
Larry Behm |
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Wayne D. Clark
From:
Montello Wisconsin, USA
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Posted 16 May 2007 7:24 am
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Ok So the conclusion I am seeing here is that when my Insterment was set up the 7th string should have ha a change from F# to G not the 6th string from G# to G. Secondly Most of you tie it with the 2nd String Change, where as mine would be with the 1st string Change, Both from F# to G. My 2nd string D# to D is tied to my 9th String D to C#.
Now to find some one within a reasonable distande to made the Change from my 6th string to 7th string on the G. Since I live in Wisconsin that will be a stretch.
Desert Rose S10 3/5
Goodrich 120
Nashville 400 |
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 16 May 2007 7:24 am Re: 7th String Change
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I have a whole step lower on the 7th string, and I use the half stop a lot.
| Wayne D. Clark wrote: |
...are changes on the 7th String... Buddy Emmons does not. .
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I think Buddy lowers the 7th a half step with the same knee lever that lowers the 6th a whole step. |
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Ray Minich
From:
Bradford, Pa. Frozen Tundra
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Posted 16 May 2007 7:29 am
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| I think Jay Dee has a 7th string change too. Have to look at the tab book again to confirm it. |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 16 May 2007 7:43 am
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| Wayne D. Clark wrote: |
| Ok So the conclusion I am seeing here is that when my Insterment was set up the 7th string should have ha a change from F# to G not the 6th string from G# to G. Secondly Most of you tie it with the 2nd String Change, where as mine would be with the 1st string Change, Both from F# to G. My 2nd string D# to D is tied to my 9th String D to C#. |
It is very common to lower the 9th string along with the 2nd string. Raising the 7th string on that same lever is uncommon. Tommy White is the only "big name" player I know of who does that.
Like I said, older guitars often had a lever that raised both F#'s to G. It was pretty standard in the 70's and early 80's. In the 90's, the tide turned towards raising them both to G#, or raising the 1st to G# and lowering the 6th to F#. The 2nd string raise to E was also added.
Some people just love having those newer full step changes. It gives you another way to go from I to V, and it's used on a lot of hit records. Other people (like me) haven't felt a need to add those changes.
_________________
-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 16 May 2007 8:33 am
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| b0b wrote: |
It is very common to lower the 9th string along with the 2nd string. Raising the 7th string on that same lever is uncommon. |
Lowering the 7th on that same lever works well for me, along with raising the low E. Most of my E9s are like this now:
| Tab: |
RKL
F#
D# -D,--C#
G#
E
B
G#
F# -F,--E
E
D (D),-C#
B
G#
E (E), ++F#
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 16 May 2007 8:47 am
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I even got the two half stops to work on a push-pull guitar. There is a "dead zone" in the middle of the knee lever travel, where you can move the knee lever a little bit, but strings 2 and 7 stay at D and F.
Last edited by Earnest Bovine on 16 May 2007 8:50 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 16 May 2007 8:49 am
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Here is one of my helpers with the push-pull:
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 16 May 2007 9:01 am
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Here are 2 other helpers, inspecting an extra sousaphone that I borrowed last week. It had been sitting in David Jackson's driveway for a few years, and they smelled something in there. I shook it, and a nest came out. I think it was a rodent nest but it could have been a bird nest.
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Kyle Everson
From:
Nashville, Tennessee
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Posted 16 May 2007 11:29 am
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| Larry Strawn wrote: |
| I drop my 6th string G# down to F#, with my lack of theory I'm going by what my ears are telling me, with pedals down and this lower I've been calling this a 7th chord. Am I even in the ball park here? I know it's a nice sweet mellow chord. |
Lowering the 6th to F# gives the same 7th chord they're discussing when you add your B pedal (assuming a split so you can fine-tune it). I liked having the 6 full lower and the 7th half raise on separate knees, but I am currently using the B half lower instead of the 7th string change. |
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Dustin Rigsby
From:
Parts Unknown, Ohio
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Posted 16 May 2007 1:05 pm
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| Quote: |
| Dustin, if you want to use it, the term is "copedent". And yes, that is spelled correctly, per the word's creator, Tom Bradshaw. I prefer to just use "setup". |
Brint,
My bad....but I have been calling it that un-knowingly for three years now,but I like the term "co-dependant".It seems to fit the bill because the way I play depends on the "setup". Whatever works. I was just trying to answer a question. I will bow out of the conversation now. |
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Max Stuckey
From:
Florida, USA
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Posted 19 May 2007 3:49 pm Franklin PedalI thought I saw somewhere on the forum that th
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| I thought I saw somewhere on the Forum that the Franklin Pedal lowered 5,6, and 10. |
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Tony Dingus
From:
Kingsport, Tennessee, USA
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Posted 19 May 2007 5:51 pm
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Wayne, set your pedals and knee levers to the changes you want. Steve Palousek lowers his G# to G and plays some nice licks with it. My setup is the way I want it,some have the PF pedal 4 lowering 5,6 & 10 a whole tone. I use a wound 6th and use to lower it a whole tone but, it was wearing out my return spring so I took it off. I lower the 5th to A and raise the 6th to A too so I wouldn't have to block it. I lower the 10th with pedal C and I raise the 1st & 7th to G# with a knee lever. To play a lick with the PF pedal this is how I do it. I can't play every lick but it works for me.
U is the up lever and R raises the 7th a whole tone.
| Tab: |
4--3
5--3a/3/3U/3
6--3b/3/3U/3
7-------3-/3R
6---3b/3/3b/3---
7--------3-/3R--
8---3~~~~~~~3---
9---------------
10--3a/3/3c/3--- |
Make your setup for you.
Tony |
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Brint Hannay
From:
Maryland, USA
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Posted 19 May 2007 7:53 pm
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Hey Dustin,
Sorry if I came off wrong; I had no intention of coming down on you. Lots of people get that word wrong. Probably if someone went through all the posts in the history of the Forum, more have spelled it wrong than right! And there's been discussion about the spelling more than once on the Forum. That's why my line about the right spelling. As I mentioned, I don't even like the word myself (that's why I said "if you want to use it"). It's an awkwardly made up term invented to fill a perceived need. In a recent post, Tom Bradshaw, the guy who coined the word, said he didn't really like it either!
Don't bow out of the discussion on that account! |
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Roger Edgington
From:
San Antonio, Texas USA
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Posted 22 May 2007 7:27 am
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| I raise the 7th a half tone along with lowering the 2nd and 9th and a pull on the C neck. I raise the 7th a whole tone along with the first and second strings. I use the hale raise far more than the whole raise usually with AB pedals. |
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Paul Crawford
From:
Orlando, Fl
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Posted 23 May 2007 12:38 pm Another Option
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| I have a 1/2 step Lower on my P/P. The 7th string lowers to F when the 6th string double lower gets to F#. Mike Cass put it on for me and Emmons used it for a while. A handy chromatic run and some nice changes on the raise dominant P/P. |
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