The Steel Guitar Forum

OK, stupid banjo player question time again.

I think I understand the 6 thing now: A6=C6=G6 basically = Don Helms "13th." Variations result from the root tuning and whether it's topped with the third or the 5th.

E13 is clearly a different set of animals. So:

1. Which of the multiple variations on E13 tuning do you prefer?

2. Why?

3. On what songs or styles or genre would you prefer this tuning to A6 or C6.


You guys should be charging me for this education!!

KP

Actually, most E13 seems to fit the same category as A6 and C6. The E13 that looks unique and different to me is what I call the McAullife E13. From hi to lo E-C#-B-G#-F#-D-B-E. Various players use one variation or another of it. Probably the most famous and skillful being the late Tom Morrel. But I don't play E13 and cannot comment furhter.

I use the E13 that Little Roy Wiggins and Don Helms uses although it is actually the E6. Don Helms changes the 8th and 7th string from B and D to A and C#. I think Roy changed his bottom string (s) later also. I tried the other versions of E but the F# always had a restless sound I couldn't figure out what to to incorporate it with playing .
The E6 is just a higher pitched version of C6 so the patterns and grips transfer over easily from C6. I like the E6 as you have the higher pitched sounds of the above players for that material and you have most of the C# minor tuning for the Santo and Johnny stuff like Sleepwalk , Tenderly and Canadian Sunset , if you avoid the 4th string.The A and C# on string 7+8 give you more chord options than the standard C# minor tuning.
I didn't use to like the skinny high G string whenever I tried it before , but the problem was my using a Peavey Classic 30 amp with it's strong mid range tone circuit for standard electric guitar design. I changed to a solid state tube works amp and it sounds great now.

Edward and Kevin: I agree with you completely. The Wiggins/Helms variants are really just E6 revisited. The other tuning Edward mentioned is the one that prompted the question: as soon as you put the D (7) in instead of, not in addition to, the E, and add the F# (9), you have a much more legitimate Dominant chord, and a whole different feel to the tuning.

Now what the heck am I supposed to do with it? Reading Volk's book (available in the classifieds of this selfsame forum!), Leon McAuliffe, Herb Remington, Cindy Cashdollar, Jeremy Wakefield and a bunch of other really smart cats use some variation of that tuning. Whaffo?

KP

I'm no expert on the E13/9 tuning-- I've messed with it a little, couldn't say I play it. But I believe that the players you named from Andy Volk's book all use this tuning as just one of 2,3 or 4 on a multi-neck setup. I'm not sure any of them have claimed it as their primary tuning. More like cool chords and flavors to dip into from time to time.

For 8 strings I'd probably try (lo-hi) G#-B-D-F#-G#-B-C#-E since I love the 4-string dom9 with the low 3rd...but I guarantee you I'd be twisting that 5th string tuner down to E a lot.

At some point I might have to give Tom Morrell's 10-string E13 a serious look. That E13 WAS his primary non-pedal tuning, and his vehicle for the best steel guitar jazz ever IMO, YMMV, etc. etc.

It occurs to me that this thread is a very close relative to the one inquiring whether two necks are better than one. I think I can cite the aforementioned smart cats as qualified users of multiple necks/tunings, and listening to them makes me think it's probably worthwhile.

And I agree that Morrell was one of the few to make the tuning his own, with very impressive results.

KP

Ken ;

I think Cindy C. mentions in her instructional video that she has the E13 on her outside neck and uses it mostly for jazzy vamps . Lee Jeffries used 2 different E13 tunings on his playing on the Big Sandy material and talks about them in his interview in Andy Volk's Lap Steel book. Lee does some really cool stuff with it but I am lost trying to figure out more than a few things. On the forum Dick Meis sells book/cd sets of several tunings including at least 2 different E13 at www.pedalsteelguitar.com I think . He has a link on the SGF

I have both of the Meis books, which are cool. The one is Helms style, and really not much different in layout than C6 or A6. The other is the real deal different tuning discussed above. The "grips" are quite different, but I suspect this tuning might really shine for single note stuff, and there's not much of that in the Meis book.

Know of any other relevant tabs?

Ken ;

I forgot to post that Scotty's Music has the Jerry Byrd tabbed out songs . I bought 1 or 2 from Jerry that he had in the E13 tuning .

I use both variations on my Q-8 Stringmaster.
The Helms tuning is great for instrumentals.

The other is more complex and has alot of variable options as far a cording. I am still learning how to get around on this one and use it for back up chops. It's a great one for blues riffs also.

Eddie Rivers is another master of this tuning and uses it with Asleep at the Wheel and in Wayne Hancock recordings.

Since reference has been made to Tommy's E13 tuning, let me mention something that just everyone may not be aware of. On the back (inside apron) of his guitar he had 4 (I think) knobs,,or devices similar to the lock-in levers on some universal pedal guitars. I don't know what strings these changed,,or what tunings they changed the guitar to. Each one went to a cross shaft, bell crank, rodded to a changer much like a pedal guitar changer. These of course could be "locked in" to various tunings.

Someone mentioned that on an earlier thread. They said the ones on the earlier guitars were problematic and eventually quit working. He also said that Mr. Morrell quit using them altogether at some point.

Say, anybody out there playing this sort of 6-string E13: E D E G# C# E ? Ping me, please!

Stevie ;

That is what I have on my Beard GT Dobro ...except in D , a whole step down

I think that tuning is what Sol Ho'opi'i called C# minor. It's missing the B that is usually associated with E13 tunings.