The Steel Guitar Forum

Hi everyone, I'm new to PSG and am seriuosly thinking of purchasing a used or possibly a
new keyless.

Any input from you keyless players would be greatly
appreciated.

Thanks

I had a keyless Williams S-10 and although I play a different guitar now, I can without hesitation recommend the Williams instruments. Bill Rudolph is a great guy to deal with and he builds a fine guitar.

Hey David, don't hesitate on getting into a keyless guitar. There are several to choose from. Here are my preferences in order:

• Sierra/Excel (they run neck and neck)
  GFI (for the keyless design itself)
  Williams (for the beautiful cabinets)

Remember, there are a few others that can build a keyless, but whether or not they have time to or not, is another thing. The reason I did not list Anapeg is the 9 year wait. Personally I can't see that, although it has got to be the ultimate guitar.

Don't worry about learning how to string it up. You do it once, and you have got it down.

As far as advantages and disadvantages, just do a search on keyless, and you'll find long threads on the subject.

As far as looks go, that is personal preference. I like the symmetrical look of a keyless. They are shorter and lighter overall. Now, some will chime in and say, "Then why don't more pros use them?"

My answer to that is simple. They are resistant to change. They may say that it looks like its head is chopped off, or something like that. I think it looks smart. Smart by design. I really think that a lot of people are intimidated by the tuner. They feel like there will be trouble stringing it up. Or, they will say, "I don't want to have to carry extra tools around". That is silly. The extra tools would be: an allen wrench at most. You mean a person can't keep up with an allen wrench, yet they can keep up with their picks and bar? Sierra, GFI and some Excels have fingertip tuners anyway.

Shop around and play on a few of them. Don't get in a hurry. If you are leaning towards GFI, Bobbe Seymore will not be beat on price. Straight up.

I had a GFI keyless s10 that was a great guitar, it was very easy to string, you only need a phillips. JP

GFI. Gene Fields is the world authority on keyless and has a great keyless system. Jody.

Tom Mooney near Memphis builds a great guitar and so do Bill Rudolph at Williams and, of course, the father of keyless, Gene Fields @ GFI. Once you immerse yourself into the keyless lifestyle, you'll soon discover there really isn't any other way to go. The advantages so outweigh the disadvantages that it simply becomes a matter of choice. Like those chrome Mickey Mouse ears on the left with a whole bunch of extra string length you really don't need, or do you want to play a mechanically-correct guitar? Harps and pianos are keyless!! Nuff said!!
PRR

I had a GFI SD 10 keyless, I highly recommend it, you only change strings when you want to,they never break on this guitar.

Try and find a used Kline.

Thanks everyone for your input.
Greatly appreciated.

I,d sure look for a kline.i have one and the engineering is great,one fine guitar.i don,t know if joe is building anymore ,but you might find a good used one,you might i say.

Yeah Bill! They're pretty hard to find. Anyone who has one isn't likely to sell it. I don't think Joe is building any more, but i hope to take mine in for it's 20 year tune-up when he gets back from Fla.

john,joe is pretty much staying in fla.now.i think he still has his place up here,but he moved some of his machinery down there.i just got some parts from him a short time ago,and had to e mail him in fla.to get them.

Oh no! Bummer for me, as his home up here is only about 40 minutes away from me. You know, I'll fool with a Shobud any day, and I work for Performance Steel Guitars, so I'm gettin' used to the newer style mechanics, but I wouldn't know where to start with my Kline. And I've never had any trouble with it, but I think I've finally worn out the 3rd string finger, and I'm too chicken to take it apart. I wonder if Jimmy is doin' any work on Joe's guitars???

John,you might try rick troyer at hummingbird in sugar creek,oh.he has some kline parts.i,ve had my changer out and worked on it.its not to bad.

Cool Bill! We're just finishing up a Green Sd-10, that I'm sure we're just gonna drive down and deliver to Rick. Next time Jerry calls him, I'll ask. Maybe I can just take my Kline down to him.

Forum member George Redmon has a Whitney dual-changer keyless. It looks great.

Arch.

Hi David, I have a Williams and I wouldn't hesitate in buying another one. I haven't played all the keyless guitars, but I'm sure happy with the one I have. As mentioned above, the maple wood Bill uses is as pretty as any guitar out there. Larry

I think the GFI is the only system that is easy to tune without a wrench of some sort. I found a Sierra much too hard to turn the tuners. Excel may have finger tuners, but the one I have is an older model & needs a wrench for tuning.

Doug S...on the Sierra(s) that you have, try this:

1. remove the finger tuning cap and use an Allen wrench. I have a short one on the other end of the rod wrench.

2. Have Tommy get a replacement plate with 4X40 screws...the result is more accurate tuning, and easier on the fingers with the caps on.

My gripe was stringing the plain strings with the string yanker. Solved this with the integrated tuner/changer mechanism used on the BEAST and it's off spring.

Edp

Hi Ed, I don't have a Sierra, I have an Excel. The Sierra that I felt was too hard to tune with my fingers was one a friend had a long time ago. They probably may be different these days.

Doug...congrats on the Excel...sounds like you were "Staffordized".

I would have liked Mitsuo to build the BEAST, but when he saw the prints he ran screaming! Luckily, SIERRA was just coming back from the ashes,so Tommy and Don did the honours.

My latest variation is the Bb13th "little HORN" = a son of the BEAST...still with modified SIERRA SESSION series hardware = a very stable platform.

Lamar Colvin of Lamar Steel Guitars builds my favorite keyless tuner unit.

Space saving vertical movement that applies down force on the roller nut.

I also played a keyless Sierra for several years.

I don't think you can miss with any of those mentioned. You just need to sit 'em and see which one suits your ergonomic and tonal requirements.

'Fly Keyless with GFI'

Ernie

I have a Pedalmaster SD-10 keyless and it is great! Superb tone, stays in tune, and easy to change the strings. Roy Thomas is an exceptional builder. I would recommend him highly.

I have a GFI keyless SD-10 and played it as my sole gigging axe for three years. GFI is an ingeniously designed pedal steel, keyed or keyless, that plays exceptionally smoothly and easily and is outstandingly easy to work on mechanically. Lately I don't find the tone (stock GFI-II pickup) suits me personally, but that's completely subjective.

The GFI is my only experience with keyless--I've had six keyed steels--but from that my feeling is that there's no particular advantage or disadvantage to keyless as far as tone, sustain, tuning stability or breaking strings are concerned. Once you get used to which knob tunes which string (doesn't take long), it's just as easy to tune as a keyed guitar. Changing strings is neither more nor less trouble than on a keyed, just different. You do need a Phillips for the GFI, but everybody should have one handy anyway .

The only real advantages to keyless I see are smaller size, a little less weight (not a big factor; keyless eliminates, what, maybe 5-6-7% of the body mass?), and symmetrical appearance if you like that.

It might be a little harder to sell a keyless if you should want to, as only a minority of players till now have gotten into keyless. That might change, of course.