SCAM - eBay Double Listing of Unique Steel

Alan Kirk · Post by **Alan Kirk** » 2 Apr 2005 8:54 am

A very unique Lap Steel is listed by two sellers, with IDENTICAL PICTURES. Item Nos. 7312578878 AND 7312049831. I have reported this to eBay.

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Jon Light · Post by **Jon Light** » 2 Apr 2005 9:13 am

That's major. Note--original auction is in L.A., Ca. Obvious fraud is in Beijing. (later date).
Seriously interesting guitar!

CrowBear Schmitt · Post by **CrowBear Schmitt** » 2 Apr 2005 9:16 am

indeed !
7312578878 is in Peking China
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7312578878

7312049831 is in LA Calif
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7312049831

the Fo'Bro' that unravels this mystery or scam wins 2 sets of Smileys Black Diamond string sets or a stuffed possum from Farris

[This message was edited by CrowBear Schmitt on 02 April 2005 at 09:17 AM.]

Jon Light · Post by **Jon Light** » 2 Apr 2005 9:19 am

Let me note that anyone taken in by something like this deserves it. There is no help or hope for the excessively stupid.

NOTE: the seller's feedback has 5 positive transactions. All of them were accumulated in two days. All were transactions of $.12. Twelve cents. At least one of the feedback posters is a one week long ebay user who is no longer registered.
I repeat--if you can't do this minimal research, you don't deserve sympathy if you cry later that you were scammed on ebay.

Now---let's not let this fact slow us down in our efforts to find ways to make the scum die.

Jeff Au Hoy · Post by **Jeff Au Hoy** » 2 Apr 2005 12:33 pm

I would have rather they just stuck to making pee-pee in my Coke.

Jon Light · Post by **Jon Light** » 2 Apr 2005 2:45 pm

I have come to realize that there is no means of paying included in this auction. This indicates either that this clone auction is either a joke or is a pathetically inept fraud attempt. I, too, have informed Ebay (who, with their trillions of $$ of annual profit seem unable to hire enough staff to attend to their business and end auctions such as this in a timely manner).
Ebay is an amazing global trading forum but unfortunately it shows us the best and the worst of free marketplaces--the worst being greed, both in the scam-scum and in the fat cat owners who would rather maximize profits than reinvest in easy improvements to protect the goose that is plopping out their golden eggs.

mike nolan · Post by **mike nolan** » 2 Apr 2005 3:04 pm

This kind of stuff is pretty easy to avoid. What I find more troubling is the sort of slick dishonesty displayed by sellers like the one selling the D-8 Stringmaster that is currently being discussed in another thread.

I recently bought a guitar that had beautiful photos depicting it as a collector grade guitar. The seller had hundreds of positive feedbacks. When the guitar arrived it had flaws that made it non collector grade... and in fact non player grade. None of these flaws were described and all of them would have been easy to photograph. If I had been able to pick that guitar up for 30 seconds, I would never have bought it.... unless, of course, I gave only 20 or 30 dollars for it as a project. By the way the seller won't refund my money or return my email... I have registered a complaint at Paypal and am awaiting their decision.[This message was edited by mike nolan on 02 April 2005 at 03:06 PM.]

Denny Turner · Post by **Denny Turner** » 2 Apr 2005 5:17 pm

NOTE: I just recently edited this page to be less irately-demonstrative in my ongoing loss of patience with ebay's / pay pal's nefarious business practices (which actually amounts to ebay's / pay pal's false facade of "care" and "Support" propaganda that simply doesn't exist near the degree they claim).

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Ebay is an amazing global trading forum but unfortunately it shows us the best and the worst of free marketplaces--the worst being greed, both in the scam-scum and in the fat cat owners who would rather maximize profits than reinvest in easy improvements to protect the goose that is plopping out their golden eggs.

I have found that to be quite accurately what ebay's / pay pal's "deceptive gig" is ...although a bit more deliberatly nefarious than stated. I also SUSPECT the money being generated for them by a Seller plays big in their willingness to do anything more than reply to complaints with nonsensical stonewalling "support" propaganda; Which is quite similar to not-uncommon public opinion. I've purchased from about 125 auctions on ebay, and been most honorable, thorough and punctual. In 3 very bad ebay transactions I have experienced, ebay's responses (when/if any) were with mazes of nonsensical / erroneous / irrelevant policy links and boiler plate "hear - see - speak no evil" propaganda amounting to (sic) "Although we're acting very sorry and nonsensically incompetent, ... you might as well go try Dial a Prayer".

Any number of bad Sellers know very well that contrary to ebay's / pay pal's propaganda about "care" and "support", ebay's policy actually says ebay cannot force a Seller to abide by his/her auction. Of course it fails to mention that ebay harbors and defends them all too often.

Also see the SGF discussions about Guitar Center's 'Instrument Exchange' and it's nefarious ebay accounts auctions ...which I also personally reported to ebay to no avail.

Ever try to find a means to communicate with ebay / pay pal outside the maze of "support" stone walls around their fortress???

SO, ...I recently got fed up with ebay and pay pal for their seemingly nonsensical / incompetent facade of emails responding to my complaint and pay pal claim in a blatantly obvious very bad transaction with a real scumbag Seller, ....a high volume $$$$$$ ebay Seller ...that ebay has even decorated (certificate) for excellence even though retaliatory feedback he leaves for others speaks rather clearly of his poor personal and business character! As soon as I started complaining about this auction and seller, ebay started harrassing me to no end, ....which by my nature & "policy" motivated me to respond in kind ten-fold, which escalated to the point that I built 'My Bad Mail-Order Experiences' website ...an ongoing expose' of nefarious practices of ebay / pay pal (no other bad experience sources to report!) ...and scam artists and bad business that ebay / pay pal harbors. The entry page is now linked from my ebay "About Me" page. Now my ebay Feedback about bad transactions can refer to that "About Me" page / link and thus to the fullest details of bad transaction experiences not afforded in ebay's Feedback provision; ....As well as a place where other Folks can report bad (or good) ebay's experiences if they might desire to; (Although ebay is trying their darnedest to shut me up and might very well cancel my ebay account).

(NOTE: IMHO: An ebay "About Me" page cannot link to a webpage that lists any ebay member's contact information; And although ebay published policy exempts User Names from that privacy, ebay obviously wishes it didn't and has harrassed me to no end before I simply made a cover / reroute page to end the dispute. HOWEVER, in ebay's response to my complaint about psychotic filth the Seller emailed me, ebay stated in writing that (sic) they have no "jurisdiction" / control over what is provided outside their computer systems ...such as in emails sent through other servers. And sure enough, most scumbags can't resist sending ugly replies from their email server.)

There is a Guestbook on the website where anyone can report their own ebay experiences; A handy tool to report the details of dealings with ebay, ...and with bad Sellers where ebay's Feedback provisions and rules are deliberately inadequate (maybe for the better in reasonable Peace, considering the extremes I have now taken in irate amazement at ebay's practices).

Aloha,
Denny T~
[This message was edited by Denny Turner on 04 April 2005 at 07:10 PM.]

Casey Lowmiller · Post by **Casey Lowmiller** » 2 Apr 2005 7:29 pm

I can't believe this idiot tried to copy and post a fraudulent auction on something so damn unique.

I reported the crap to Ebay. I'm tired of all the bullcrap going on on Ebay. It's crap like this that makes it hard to buy anything good on ebay.

The only other thing that I've seen as crappy as this is those Guitar Center creeps who post steels with crazy prices in hopes of ripping someone off. People should boycott the guitar center for screwing up the market on steel guitars. CREEPS!!!!!!!!!!!

Casey

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Known Coast to Coast as
"The Man with The Plan"

Fender Pedal 800, Fender Champion & a Homemade Double-neck!

Jon Light · Post by **Jon Light** » 3 Apr 2005 4:56 pm

As I was checking to see if Ebay was taking care of this (they are not) I looked further and now I believe that it's probably just a kid seeing what will happen if he screws around. Look at the user name, then try it on your keyboard. It's the equivalent of a scribble, just a quick shuffle of the fingers. Look at the feedback. Look at the items. There is no merchandise there. Just empty 'auctions" with scribbles in the titles, scribbles in the user names.
And again, there are no payment instructions or provisions in this auction. Also, the photos are inactive. All in all, there was no way even a complete idiot could have gotten hooked in this. Seems like a kid seeing how far he can go before someone swats him down.

Alvin Blaine · Post by **Alvin Blaine** » 4 Apr 2005 1:28 am

This is not just a kid fooling around. This is an international SCAM!

kjdfgdf8545 has 17 mirrored eBay auctions up right now. Some even have bids on them.
They have very low starting bids like 99 cents, but the shipping is anywhere for $25 to $650.

So who ever win the auction thinks they are geting a deal with a cheep bid. Then the seller tells them that because he's/she's in China they need your credit card instead of paypal or moneyorder.
The people not smart enough to bid on a scam will give up thier credit card number.

edit to add that most of the scammers shipping cost seem to be the opening bid prices of the real auctions.[This message was edited by Alvin Blaine on 04 April 2005 at 03:13 AM.]

Craig Hawks · Post by **Craig Hawks** » 4 Apr 2005 2:00 am

To Mike Nolan...I had a similar experience, but the Stringmaster arrived in non-working order. Upon opening I found that the blend pot and one pickup had been removed from the circuit and the selector switch was non-working. I took photo's and made my complaint to my credit card company (Citi Bank). So far they have stood behind me. They refunded my money and are forcing PayPal to deal with the fraudulent seller. I'll let you know when all this completes.

My purpose in writing this is to let you know that you can Dispute the charge with your Credit Card company (Although a complaint to PayPal might help, PayPal's "customer" is the Seller in this case, not you! So, dispute the charge with your Credit Card company quickly. There are short time limits on this type of dispute! Most are quite responsive to these types of problems and have the force you need to "right" these types of wrongs.[This message was edited by Craig Hawks on 04 April 2005 at 03:03 AM.][This message was edited by Craig Hawks on 04 April 2005 at 03:04 AM.]

Alvin Blaine · Post by **Alvin Blaine** » 4 Apr 2005 11:34 am

kjdfgdf8545 is " No longer a registered user" on ebaY.

I sent email to 13 of the real auctions they were trying to scam, and sent 13 fruad reports to ebay.

So all the "Fake" auctions by this seller have been stoped.

mike nolan · Post by **mike nolan** » 4 Apr 2005 12:12 pm

Thanks Craig... I had one other problem that Paypal took care of.... but I probably let my credit card company know as well....

CrowBear Schmitt · Post by **CrowBear Schmitt** » 4 Apr 2005 1:11 pm

good one Alvin !

will the steel guit fo'bros for a cleaner ebay get free auctions fees ?
they deserve it !

Denny Turner · Post by **Denny Turner** » 4 Apr 2005 6:13 pm

Now why in the world is it so common for knowlegeable ebayers to have to get their credit card companies to refund what Pal Pal refuses to after the maze of stone-walling run-around they first try?????

How many Fo'Bro's ever had a bad deal with ebay and how many got a refund from Pay Pal over a bad deal?

Aloha,
DT~

Alan Kirk · Post by **Alan Kirk** » 4 Apr 2005 6:18 pm

I had a problem with a seller here on the forum. I had payed him with Paypal. I sent Paypal emails that substantiated my claim. They knocked him off Paypal until he made good. Paypal worked for me in that instance.[This message was edited by Alan Kirk on 04 April 2005 at 07:19 PM.]

Jim Landers · Post by **Jim Landers** » 4 Apr 2005 7:13 pm

I have had two Ebay deals go bad. That's about 1/2 of 1% on my total Ebay transactions, which is pretty darn good as far as I'm concerned.

Anyway, PayPal got me aq total refund, including shipping charges, in both cases. I really don't know what more you could expect them to do. So, count me in the "happy" Ebay/PayPal customer group.

Jim

Paul Arntson · Post by **Paul Arntson** » 4 Apr 2005 10:10 pm

The only time I got close to burned on the internet was my first transaction - a red knob twin reverb that wasn't all it was made out to be - independent not on ebay. Since then every deal I have made has been on ebay and has been great. And that's been 4 years. Of course I look at all the seller's feedback and think about it really hard before transacting.
Caveat emptor.

Mark Vinbury · Post by **Mark Vinbury** » 5 Apr 2005 3:00 pm

I agree with you Paul "Caveat Emptor".
I figure buying somthing on eBay is like
going to a flea market where the vendors aren't there. They only have pictures of their stuff on the table and and address in some other state to send the money to.
How many hundreds of dollars would you send off under these circumstances?
Seems to me if your concerned and can't get a money back guarantee don't spend more than you don't mind losing.Also doesn't eBay have an escrow arrangement available?

Denny Turner · Post by **Denny Turner** » 7 Apr 2005 3:30 am

If a person doesn't have a problem with an auction on ebay, then there is no problem to report ...which is great. And "caveat emptor" / due-diligence is INDEED primary in avoiding the ample supply of problematic sellers and buyers on ebay. But ebay / pay pal IS NOT the "Safe Harobr", concerned, guaranteed-insured buying forum their propaganda suggests ...but quite the opposite ...rather obviously by stonewalling design... in circumstances where they'd rather be deceitful corporate nazis protecting the fortress regardless of public interests / safety; ...And that urks me to no end with any business liar; ...scam artists in their own right IMHO.

Aloha,
DT~
[This message was edited by Denny Turner on 10 April 2005 at 03:10 AM.]

Pete Knapton · Post by **Pete Knapton** » 8 Apr 2005 2:27 am

I've got a kind of happier ebay story to tell. Recently I purchased a vintage sax from a seller in Utah, USA. On arrival, the instrument wasn't quite as it was described, so we communicated, on a civil level. In the end, the seller paid for the tech's repair bill (which was a third of the sale price).
I felt good that a seller would backup the sale with good communication and hard cash. I left appropriate feedback. Maybe this was the exception, but i don't think so. Insurance companies operate on the premise that the majority of people are basically honest. I guess 'What goes around comes around'. Pete

Denny Turner · Post by **Denny Turner** » 11 Apr 2005 1:01 am

What goes around SHOULD come around; and vice versa if it don't.

Aloha,
DT~

Jeff Au Hoy · Post by **Jeff Au Hoy** » 11 Apr 2005 2:01 am

What's all the hubbub? You just gotta be as careful as you would be anywhere else, buying something from somebody you don't know. Do your homework, ask questions, find out about the seller, communicate... that's not new. If you buy into the eBay safe-harbor propaganda, then you probably also buy into the propaganda everywhere else in your life. Whose fault is that?

I'm a happy ebayer. I get everything from the instruments I play to the pens with which I write. No bad transactions. Happy.

Denny Turner · Post by **Denny Turner** » 11 Apr 2005 2:57 am

No bad transactions. Happy.

What's all the hubbub? It ain't rocket science to enter "ebay scam" into this forum's search engine to understand the humbbub doesn't have anything to do with the good people in good transactions; Although very nice to hear some folks are still blem free.

125 good and 3 bad transactions ... to the tune of about $35K with only a $75 loss ... ain't too shabby in the homework and brains you suggest; But recapping what has been said all over this forum: The humbbub revolves around ebay / pay pal's canned / stonewalling / nefarious business practices and harboring scam artists; ... not the good people involved in good transactions. ~~~~~~~ Ebay did NOTHING for me but hose me with incomprehensible (unintelligible), erroneous, stonewalling, feigning-incompetence in all 3 bad transactions (while effectively harboring the rats), ... wasting my time as if I was a gullible sheeple with a 6th grade education; The first 2 of which I solved by filing FBI complaints which got the hot dogs off their buns (as it probably will in the third rhodent's case too); While 3 times in my book calls for some action rather than supposing how cleverly successful and happy I was in 125 cases.

ALOHA,
DT~
[This message was edited by Denny Turner on 11 April 2005 at 04:20 AM.]