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Topic: Pros and cons of an old LDG? |
Marc Stone
From:
Louisiana, USA
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Posted 5 Mar 2007 1:43 pm |
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Big question, I know, probably discussed here before. I may have an opportunity to buy an LDG (don't know the year, I don't think it has teardrop levers) from someone who used it to gig years ago and has let it sit mostly dormant since. I'm new to PSG, played guitar for a long time and understand certain things about used instruments. My PSG is a Pedalmaster that was very recently rebuilt by Roy Thoms. The pedal action seems very smooth to me and stays it in tune as well if not better than any stringed instrument I have ever gigged. I know an old Sho-Bud that has some miles and years on it may not be the same case.
I've heard about mechanical issues with older Sho-Buds and the effects of wear on the stability of the mechanics, and I also know that those old LDGs sound really fine. My friend played me some old recordings he had made with his and it sounded great.
So what should I look for to determine what kind of shape it is really in and how much TLC it will take to make a stageworthy instrument? What are some variations in the LDGs that have their own special pros and cons?
Thanks everyone
_________________
Host of the Soul Serenade on WWOZ 90.7-fm New Orleans, lifelong guitar ho. "Lil' Red" Pedalmaster S10, late 50s Fender Deluxe 8, 1940 Rickenbacher crinkle finish lap, 1930 National Triolian, 1969 Gibson Dove, 1960 reissue Les Paul, a strat 'cause my Tele drowned, 1972 Fender P-Bass, 1959 Fender Deluxe, 1966 Fender Pro Reverb, Fender Hot Rod DeVille 2x12, Fender Blues Deluxe and lots of other stuff I like to pick on |
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Joe A. Camacho
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Posted 5 Mar 2007 2:34 pm
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Pros: Sounds and looks incredible. Stay in tune and isn't too heavy to carry around.
Cons: Everybody wants it. |
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Jerry Malvern
From:
Menifee, California, USA
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Posted 5 Mar 2007 3:01 pm
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| Marc, alot depends on the year. The oldest LDG, round front sound the best, in my opinion, but by now the mechanics are wore out. But those guitars are worthy of a rebuild. I got one, and with a Fender Twin, the tone is almost unbelievable. |
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Marc Stone
From:
Louisiana, USA
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Posted 5 Mar 2007 3:12 pm
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OK, let's say the mechanics and changer are shot and the sucker needs a tip to tail rebuild. Who does it well and roughly what does it cost? What, as someone who is new to the PSG, should I look for in terms of wear to determine how much rebuilding it needs?
_________________
Host of the Soul Serenade on WWOZ 90.7-fm New Orleans, lifelong guitar ho. "Lil' Red" Pedalmaster S10, late 50s Fender Deluxe 8, 1940 Rickenbacher crinkle finish lap, 1930 National Triolian, 1969 Gibson Dove, 1960 reissue Les Paul, a strat 'cause my Tele drowned, 1972 Fender P-Bass, 1959 Fender Deluxe, 1966 Fender Pro Reverb, Fender Hot Rod DeVille 2x12, Fender Blues Deluxe and lots of other stuff I like to pick on |
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Steve Spitz
From:
New Orleans, LA, USA
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Posted 5 Mar 2007 3:24 pm Sho-Bud
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| Marc : I am willing to help you if you`d like. Call anytime 504 442 3361. all the best, Steve Spitz New Orleans |
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Billy Carr
From:
Seminary, Mississippi, USA (deceased)
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Posted 5 Mar 2007 3:51 pm SB
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| If you don't find one of the old Bud's that's playable and in good shape, then give me a call and we might be able to put you behind a new MAGNUM. Thanks. |
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Jerry Malvern
From:
Menifee, California, USA
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Posted 5 Mar 2007 5:07 pm
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| Marc, I just got mine done. Everything new...legs,case,pick up,fretboard, I mean everything. Complete underside rebuild (3 and 5) new changer fingers, and cabinet refinish. All together, about $1750 plus freight and the original cost of the guitar. Gimme an email and I will send pictures. |
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Kevin Hatton
From:
Buffalo, N.Y.
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Posted 5 Mar 2007 6:31 pm
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| Marc, Duane Marrs and Jeff Surratt are the kings of Sho-Bud restores. Chances are to put the guitar in excellent playing condition. Would be between $500.00 and $1000.00. Maybe even less. It probably doesn't need a complete restore. If it does $1500.00 is around right. If the guitar hasn't been gone through by a competent Sho-Bud mechanic, it should. Once they are gone through and worn parts replaced and a full adjustment done they play fantastic. Chances are Duane Marrs built that guitar. He and Jeff are in Nashville at 615-754-4856. Its money well spent. There are alot of Sho-Buds out there with worn parts and out of adjustment. There are other competent Sho-Bud mechanics here also like Ricky Davis asnd John Coop. Their work is outstanding. The reason some of these older guitars get a bad name is because they were never properly maintained. |
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mike nolan
From:
Forest Hills, NY USA
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Posted 5 Mar 2007 8:31 pm
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Marc,
I have 2 round front LDGs. One was played quite a bit, the other is untouched. They both play very well. The one that has been played more shows cosmetic wear and I changed a couple of the brass disks that connect to the pullers, but other than that there are no real problems.
The newer LDGs (super pro and custom era) are the ones with the pot metal parts, and are the most likely to need serious work if they have a lot of play time on them.
Tell us a little about the axe... headstock style, narrow or wide pedals, square or round front, and changer type... then you can get some more opinions. |
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James Morehead
From:
Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.
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Posted 5 Mar 2007 8:52 pm
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| Marc, Contact Ricky Davis. There are few people who understand LDG's like Ricky does. He lives in Houston now and is a forum moderator. Ricky has been plying his LDG pro for quite some time. His is the very early LDG. Also, NO ONE makes better replacement parts than the Coopster. Check out Ricky's website, and clic on "house of wood" to see the refurbishments he has done. You'll get straight up advice from Ricky Davis and John Coop. |
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Herb Steiner
From:
Briarcliff TX 78669, pop. 2,064
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Posted 6 Mar 2007 6:11 am
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| John Coop not only makes undercarriage and changer parts that are drop-in replacements for original S~B parts,... only better quality metal and machining... the parts are drop-dead gorgeous to look at. |
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Chris LeDrew
From:
Canada
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Posted 6 Mar 2007 6:29 am
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I recently installed a Coop LKL kit on my Pro 1, so I can attest to Coop's talent for making exact replacement parts for Sho~Buds, only with much more concern for quality than his predecessors. Coop makes superior parts in function and form while maintaining their original appearance and dimensions. Herb's right - Coop's parts are things of beauty. There's a lot of attention to detail - the mark of a true professional at his craft.
I can't wait to pick up my LKR kit from Coop in Dallas this week. 
_________________
Jackson Steel Guitars
Web: www.chrisledrew.com |
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Marc Stone
From:
Louisiana, USA
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Posted 6 Mar 2007 6:31 am
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Thanks for the info eveyone, and keep it coming, especially any info on what to look for when I am checking instrument out to determine what might need repair/replacement. I won't be in front off the instrument for about another 10 days, when i can look at it closely to determine year, condition, etc. I played it before, but had not been playing PSG long enough to know what to look/feel for. Seemed to play OK, and cosmetically no issues. Some wear and corrosion on the changer, didn't inspect the mech. to well.
PLEASE DON"T SEND ME ANY MORE OFFERS TO SELL ME A PSG!!!!!!!! I am not in the market, but if my friend is letting go of his LDG, his son said he might like me to have it and I would love to take it but I need to know what I'm really getting into before I do that. Thanks for the offers, but I am only asking so I can determine if I want the specific instrument in question. |
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Jim Bob Sedgwick
From:
Clinton, Missouri USA
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Posted 6 Mar 2007 7:47 am
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Mark, do you have any knowledgable players close to you. It would be very helpful to have that person go with you to inspect the instrument. Old worn parts can be polished to appear to be in excellent shape. (NOT) All that glitters is not gold.
The old Buds have a wonderful vibe. Good luck |
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David Collins
From:
Madison, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 6 Mar 2007 11:33 am
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I'm a die hard Emmons Push Pull fan and player.
That being said, give a listen to "Charlie Pride, Live at Panther Hall" and Lloyd Green playing his "old LDG".
If there is a con, I can't hear it!
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David Collins
www.chjoyce.com |
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Joe A. Camacho
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Posted 6 Mar 2007 11:47 am
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| David Collins wrote: |
I'm a die hard Emmons Push Pull fan and player.
That being said, give a listen to "Charlie Pride, Live at Panther Hall" and Lloyd Green playing his "old LDG".
If there is a con, I can't hear it! |
I believe that concert was recorded in 1969, the first LDG wasn't constructed until 72/73. |
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Chris LeDrew
From:
Canada
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Posted 6 Mar 2007 11:58 am
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Panther Hall was recorded in July of 1968, and Mr. Green was using a Sho~Bud Fingertip model through a Fender Twin.
_________________
Jackson Steel Guitars
Web: www.chrisledrew.com |
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Brandon Ordoyne
From:
Needville,Texas USA
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Posted 6 Mar 2007 12:10 pm
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Hi Marc,
I play a 2003 Pedalmaster SD-10 3x5 keyless, and it is a beautiful sounding guitar and I get soo many compliments. It stays in tune well, and the action on the pedals and levers, well, if you look at them they almost engage  ...haha...Roy Thomas is an excellent builder who stands behind his product. I dont know much about the LDG's, but they sure do look great, and sound good. I had the chance to snoop around Ricky Davis' LDG at our Southeast Texas Steel Guitar Club Meeting and it is a beauty. I have always wanted a Sho-Bud LDG every since I saw Scott Walls playing with the Cornell Hurd Band. Maybe, one day I will get me one of those old Buds
_________________
'74 Emmons D10 P/P 8x5,'15 Rittenberry D10 8x5, Peavey Nashville 112, 400 & 1000, Fender Twin Reverb Tone Master, Hilton, Goodrich L120, Boss DD-3 and RV-3 |
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Kenny Drake
From:
Leesburg, Virginia, USA
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Posted 8 Mar 2007 6:51 am
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Marc,
Do not assume the mechanics are "worn out by now." Some of these guitars got very little or moderate use and they should have many years of service left. Find out which changer is on the guitar. 2/2, etc. If the guitar is properly adjusted, stays in tune and is lubed at every string change then you should have no problems. If you eventually decide to do a rebuild then I say it will be well worth whatever it costs, if done properly. These guitars are very popular. Joe C is right! Everybody wants one.
Best o Luck! |
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Joe A. Camacho
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Posted 8 Mar 2007 11:50 am
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| Kenny Drake wrote: |
Marc,
Do not assume the mechanics are "worn out by now." Some of these guitars got very little or moderate use and they should have many years of service left. Find out which changer is on the guitar. 2/2, etc. If the guitar is properly adjusted, stays in tune and is lubed at every string change then you should have no problems. If you eventually decide to do a rebuild then I say it will be well worth whatever it costs, if done properly. These guitars are very popular. Joe C is right! Everybody wants one.
Best o Luck! |
Oh so true, both of my Sho-Buds have all original parts. Nothing is worn out, Ricky Davis took Professional apart, cleaned and lube it 3 years ago and I've had zero problems. My 73 LDG is exactly how I got it. |
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Marc Stone
From:
Louisiana, USA
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Posted 8 Mar 2007 3:43 pm
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Wow. Thanks everyone for the input and info. I just had a nice talk with Steve Spitz. Between that what everyone here has said, I feel a little more aware of what to look for.
The guy who has the guitar is a good friend and is a very good player who's just let it go for a while. I honestly hope he keeps the guitar and keeps playing it, but if that's not the case, at least I know what I'm looking at. That way I can figure out if I can give him what's fair for the guitar and still afford to make the guitar a playable instrument for me. Since I'm new to PSG and my only guitar is a modern one, I'm sure I will find the Bud a different beast whatever shape it's in. Looking forward to playing it.
One thing I remember well is that the knee levers are set up in reverse of what I'm used to, with the E raise and lower on the right side instead of left. Is that standard on LDGs? If so, what's on the left side (I forgot, I know one is the D#-D lower)? thanks again... |
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mike nolan
From:
Forest Hills, NY USA
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Posted 8 Mar 2007 7:34 pm
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| Marc Stone wrote: |
| One thing I remember well is that the knee levers are set up in reverse of what I'm used to, with the E raise and lower on the right side instead of left. Is that standard on LDGs? If so, what's on the left side (I forgot, I know one is the D#-D lower)? thanks again... |
Marc,
The setup on all models of the LDG can be changed fairly easily.... so if you get it, set it up the way you want. |
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David Collins
From:
Madison, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 9 Mar 2007 5:14 am
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Sorry about the mix up guys.
I assumed that it was an LDG on that recording.
See what happens when you ASS U ME
_________________
David Collins
www.chjoyce.com |
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