The Steel Guitar Forum

yep...you guessed it... another "tone" question. I have a GFI SM-10 that i'm running through a Nashville 112. I've tried adjusting every knob and every comnination of knobs to achieve what I consider to be a "classic psg sound"...or as close to it as I can get. What I seem to be lacking is low-end clarity. I've experimented with the settings that have been posted on the forum, I've experimented with right-hand position in relation to the pickup, pick angle, bar/string pressure with the left hand, replaced cables with new George L's. I've pretty much changed everything I know to change. Is there such a thing as non-compatibility between instrument and amplifier? I'm thinking I might be better off with a NV400 or silimar amp. I'd like to hear opinions from everybody, especially GFI owners.
Steve

Old trick, I use it all the time... set every knob at 5 to start with, then adjust each one slowly and barely, adding or subtracting what you think it needs. If you run the entire spectrum, and never find anything you really like...

"FS, like new amp! I mean REALLY like new! Barely used at all. It's just too heavy/wide/tall/black..."

S, Have you only tried it so far in one location or more than one ? The acoustics of the room also come into the compatability equation. If its a reflective brighter room you may have more trouble hearing a nicely defined low end. Also, i think we all have a little of the perfectionist curse which keeps us to a degree unhappy because no matter how good it sounds we can always imagine better.

custom steel / recordings

I use a 'get out of trouble' unit called a Boss GE7 Graphic Equalizer, when I can't get the tone I want.

Steve, could you cite some examples of what you consider "classic psg sound?" Otherwise, it is hard to know what tone you are after. Have you had that classic tone with another guitar and/or amp, or are you a beginner with a first psg and amp?

I guess the first question is: What do you consider the "classic psg sound"? there seem to be lots of differting opinions about that, so it's hard to give advice if you don't know the target.

But just shooting in the dark, you seem t have every tool you need, and respectfully, you're now chasing your tail hoping gear will "fix" you tone. I doubt there's any compatibility problems (I play an Ultra and it seems to get a great tone through just about any amp, although I don't use SS equipment much).

I think what you might be hearing is recorded tones, and trying to duplicate those at home. You might as well empty your bank account now, because you "can't get there from here". There are high-end compression systems, optimization routines, plate reverbs, time-manipulation, EQ, mastering and many other variables that can affect recorded sounds, and trying to get those with basic equipment at home or on the stage is something gear sellers love...because you'll spend, spend, spend trying to find something that doesn't exist - it's "manufactured" in the studio.

My advice is to develop **your** tone, and not worry about so-called "classic" tones or copying anyone else's exact sound. Try every trick that doesn't cost much - hand positions, bar pressure, string types/gages, pedals/lever tension and throw (it does make a difference) pick shape, gage and attack, bar type...and dial in the best thing you can get. Make it yours. Believe me, no one listening is going to say "aw, man, Steve sucks - he doesn't have that classic pedal steel guitar tone!"

Short version - don't worry about it. Just play, make music, and enjoy yourself.

I don't believe that you can nail that 'classic psg tone' without a classic guitar and a classic amp. The GFI and N112 are fine, modern instruments and they're very versatile, but a solid state amp can never sound exactly like a Fender Twin Reverb and a GFI will never sound exactly like an Emmons push-pull.

If you really have a jones for a specific classic tone, you have to buy the vintage gear. But if all you're missing is low-end clarity, I'd suggest a Truetone or Lawrence 710 pickup.

We need more info. What kind of volume pedal are you using? How long have you been playing? Do you have the amp pointed towards you? Are you trying to get a "good sound" with a low volume setting? (You can't do that!)

We need some more details to solve your "riddle"!

I agree with everyone here - there are just too many variables and personal tastes to get into the question with much depth. I have a GFI Ultra with the stock humbucker pickup - not sure which pickup is in the student version. I've been very happy with the tone using my Session 500.

If you know anyplace where you can demo some other amps with your instrument, I would suggest that. I haven't used the new 112, but maybe you just need more headroom and a 15" speaker. Another good trick is find a player you think is good and have them play your rig and see how it sounds a few feet away.

Are you trying to get a "good sound" with a low volume setting? (You can't do that!)

Yes, you can... we have to do that in studio all the time. Never confuse "volume" with "tone."

I Have A GFI And Nashville 112 Amp Never Have A Problem Great Sound I Also Play My Magnum With The 112 Great Sound Also. SONNY.

Sounds of the 70's........

Unintuitively, arguably, it has seemed to me that in order to clean up the bottom, one often must try a lower setting on the lows/bass knob, and/or a higher setting on the highs/treble knob.

Rob

Classic Pedal Steel sound....

Oh well, you trumped me.

Regarding the low end clarity, I agree with bOb.

I have a GFI Keyless, SD-10 and also use a Nashville 112.
I was never satisfied with the clarity of the low end on the GFI II pickup. After all, it is a humbucker. I switched out to a Truetone single coil and there's quite a big difference in clarity. I do have to put up with just a bit of 60hz hum, but it's worth it.

Chris LeDrew wrote:Sounds of the 70's........

I play a classic Sho-Bud Crossover through a Peavey Session 400, as you display. It still doesn't sound like the classic C&W recordings to me. I guess it must be in the wrist action.

Hey guys, thanks for all your responses! I probably should have told y'all that I'm a newbie at psg. Been the proud owner of my GFI for a whole month and a half! After reading y'all's (yeah, it's a word..my wife's from Missippi and she says it all the time! ) responses I figured I probably should have given you my idea of "classis psg tone" which would be an Emmons D-10 through a NV400. To me, that tone would bring a tear to a glass eye! I reckon trying to get that tone through my rig would be like using a poodle to hunt coons! Sooo...I'm gonna take the rig I've got...keep fiddling with it till I get a tone that is something I can live with...play it for a year as I had originally planned...then upgrade to a d-10 of some kind. With any luck, I'll be a better player in a year and hopefully y'all will continue to put up with this newbie asking a lot of questions. I sincerely appreciate the time everybody takes to respond to my questions and the helpful ideas they offer.
Steve

Steve, I'll bet if you could do this experiment, you would get the same results many of us have been humiliated with when new. If one of the top pros sat down at your rig you would hear the most gorgeous classic psg sound on earth. And if you sat down at their rig, you would have the same sucky tone you think you do on your own rig. Its a fact of life. Good steel tone comes from long experience. I believe there are pros in Nashville who play a GFI and one or two NV112s - ask Bobbe Seymour.

P.S.: Being from Mississippi myself, I certainly agree with your wife that "y'alls" is perfectly good second person plural possessive usage; but I don't use it too much up here in "F'luffya" if I want to be understood.

Now, wait just a hold on there......

I thought I heard somewhere that Y'all was singular and that if you wanted the plural, it had to be All y'all...

So, whassup widat..?

Rick, y'all as singular is a Hollywood creation. No true southerner ever means it that way. Yes, you will see one person address another person with something like, "How y'all doin'?" Even though there is no one else standing there with the person addressed, it means "How are you and your family and friends and dogs and everybody over at your place doing." Southerners are very family and group oriented.

Never confuse "volume" with "tone."

I don't confuse them, Mike, nor am I naive enough to think that the two don't go hand-in-hand. The entire sound industry has "re-geared" towards higher powered amps. Sound systems in cars nowadays (those the factory installs) can run upwards of 400 watts. Pedal steel guitarists, by an almost overwhelming majority, use high powered amps of 80-200 watts (which would be unnecessary by the standards of 40 years ago, when the most powerful amps were only 60 watt or so). We've come to realize that certain tones and types of programming just require a lot of power to sound good. Studio work is a different animal, and most players realize that. The noiseless environment and almost universal use of earphones in studios allows somewhat lower decibel levels, but many players still realize that good sound and tone (and not just loudness) usually come more easily from a "cranked" amp. Amps and speakers for most musical instruments just aren't designed for low sound levels, the kind you might expect from the clock-radio beside your bed. Sure, your little clock-radio sounds great, but a big pedal steel amp or a juke box just sounds so much better...to most of us, that is.

I worked for a guy from Mississippi, and if it was 3 or more he said "Y'all", but, if it was only 2 people, he said "Y'all two"....

Gabriel

Steve, you Can hunt coons with a poodle! It's a matter of training! Like wise with your perceived "Classic Sound". Training, Training, Training. Don't forget your ears must be trained also!