Goodbye

Bill McCloskey · Post by **Bill McCloskey** » 1 Mar 2005 10:26 am

Friends,

I can't believe I'm saying this but this is my last post. I've loved talking to you all but I just don't feel comfortable posting here anymore. You can check the Music area under the academy award posts to see my reason. I really will miss chating with you all.

Joel Newman · Post by **Joel Newman** » 1 Mar 2005 11:00 am

Hey Bill don't go . . .I read that thread. Just breathe a little, and remember that with this chat stuff, it's really easy to be misunderstood, coupled with the fact that "opinions are like . . . . and everyone has one". I do concur tho that on this forum especially, passions run kinda hot, let's face it, us music types feel deeply about the arts/politics/religion etc.(I think we'd be lousy musicians if we didn't feel . . ).
For what it's worth I enjoy reading your posts,(ie; theory revelations!). And hey, we play steel, we're far off the beaten track of grammy/oscar shows. Let's bring it back to the music making stuff, leave the glitz to the stars,(also, where else can you get all the quality info we get about this passion that we share?) I think if you left you'd be cutting off your nose to spite your face. C'mon man hang around . .

Jeff Au Hoy · Post by **Jeff Au Hoy** » 1 Mar 2005 11:04 am

Hi Bill,

Just got back from the music section. I'm way too far removed from your experience to comment or even sympathize, but it would be nice if you stuck around.

Steinar Gregertsen · Post by **Steinar Gregertsen** » 1 Mar 2005 11:09 am

Bill, I've been through the phase you're in now. I guess my political/social values are shared with perhaps 5-6% of the total membership of the SGF, and I've been pretty wound up at times. I've learned to ignore it and discuss other things than the strictly music/steel guitar related stuff elsewhere. This forum is simply too valuable to me.

So my advice to you is to take a deep breath, aknowledge the fact that no matter what you believe in and care for, there will always be someone who 'gets to you'. Learn to ignore it and keep enjoying all the invaluable musical experience and knowledge that's presented to us all in here.

Take care,
Steinar

------------------
www.gregertsen.com

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 1 Mar 2005 11:14 am

Bill, for what it's worth, I, for one, would like to hear your opinions of the differences between the Lazy River and the Celtic Cross instruments when you get the new one. I'm sure others are also interested in what you have to share with us on that and many other subjects. Don't let one guy in another thread who had a different opinion from yours chase you away. That's bound to happen here and there, just as in life, but the good parts are too valuable to just "check out". Heck, if I left the Forum as soon as someone disagreed with me, I'd have been gone on the first day I joined and, more importantly, I would have a LOT FEWER friends in the steel guitar community today.

Mike Neer · Post by **Mike Neer** » 1 Mar 2005 11:30 am

I also made it a point to disassociate myself with anything save for steel guitar on this forum. Even on the topic of music I can't find many kindred spirits. Lots of great folks, lots of assholes. But when you need something steel-related, you'll get responses from everyone. Spare yourself the aggravation and avoid political and heated discussions based on opinion and you'll be fine.

Jim Phelps · Post by **Jim Phelps** » 1 Mar 2005 11:31 am

Bill, you gotta do what you think you need to do, but really consider just dissappearing for a while, just take some time off away from the Forum.

Believe, I'm another who's been where you are 2 or 3 times. First time was about 4 years ago, I got so sick of things that I actually emailed b0b to cancel and completely delete my membership, username, password, etc., which he did. A few months later I cooled off and of course had to email b0b to set me up again.

Several months ago I got into it real bad with some guys here who were dragging political opinions into posts, same as happened to you. Man, it got ugly, the thread about Academy Awards is very nice and polite by comparison. I understand your position though, that it shouldn't have been brought into the subject at all, but that happens around here from time to time. I doubt if it's going to change, some people just seem to have to inject their politics where they can. You've seen it here before, I'm sure. Comments about politics, insults to other countries, etc. It doesn't belong here but the ones making the comments don't care.

I was so fedup I wanted to leave, but instead I took a breather, just didn't post for a while, even though I did do some "lurking".

As you can see, I'm back, but some of the forumites have probably noticed I don't post as much as I used to. That's not just by chance.

There are some times you just have to defend your position, even though you know it's going to make an arguement. Most times though, I think a person can just shake his head and say to himself, "what an idiot" and move on without posting and getting involved in the mess. That's what you have to try and do.

Bill, please think about just taking some time away from the Forum, lurk a little if you feel like it but don't post unless it's something really interesting for you, stay away from the political BS unless it's something you're sure you really can't let go... and hopefully, there aren't many of those. There are a lot more forumites than you know about, who are doing this, because they've been through the same experiences.

I can certainly see how the 9/11 incident is one of those things you can't let go, you were right there and most of us weren't. Usually that doesn't come up too often here. I think it's safe to say the vast majority of us, if not all, even though we weren't there to see it, still had our hearts broken for those people involved. But, this forum is not for those subjects, it is for steel guitar and music. Those who insist on preaching their views on world affairs here are WRONG and BORES.

After you cool off and get over this a bit, come on back.[This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 01 March 2005 at 11:42 AM.]

James Quackenbush · Post by **James Quackenbush** » 1 Mar 2005 11:34 am

Bill,
I can understand your frustration, and anger ......I think that you and I are probably much more sensitive to the 9/11 issues than a lot of other members on the forum ....We were there, we live just down the road from one of , if not the worst case of terror our country has gone thru .... We lost family, friends, and loved ones ....It will change our lives forever ...
We are a lot closer to the site, and lived it , while other' s heard about it .... We saw and smelled the smoke.....We picked thru the rubble ....
Take a deep breath , and say another prayer for those we lost, and say another prayer for those who don't understand...
Then continue on as a forum member and contribute to the great bunch here on the forum .... Your not always going to agree with everybody, nor will you be best of friends with everybody, but you do matter to a good bunch of folks on this forum ....Don't let one persons opinion push you away ... Opinions are just that ..
Opinions .....Sincerely, Jim

Jeff Strouse · Post by **Jeff Strouse** » 1 Mar 2005 11:45 am

Bill -

We all have different opinions...that's what makes the world go around, and it's perefectly okay. But, what brings us all together here is our love of steel guitar. We are all "brothers" in that respect and need to stick together. It's okay for brother's to disagree, right?!

Please consider staying. Most all of us have experienced this at some point.

Aloha,

Jeff

Chuck Fisher · Post by **Chuck Fisher** » 1 Mar 2005 11:56 am

There are hundreds on here. I have been offended by peoples venting of personal and political issues a few times, I stick to music and steel, and if I get real offended I just tell 'em to shut the F___ up.

There's simply too much to learn here to let anybody run me off.

John Bechtel · Post by **John Bechtel** » 1 Mar 2005 12:42 pm

I guess the bottom would drop out, if I knew of all the people who disagree with me in general! And I can even imagine that there might be quite a few. The advantages that I have are that I am ‘unaware’ and I ‘don't care’!

Ignorance is Bliss¡

It's not a ‘life-death’ situation.

------------------
“Big John” Bechtel
’49-’50 Fender T–8 Custom
’65 Re-Issue Fender Twin–Reverb Custom™ 15” Eminence

Rick Alexander · Post by **Rick Alexander** » 1 Mar 2005 12:48 pm

Dang, Bill I was just starting to like you

Seriously, these guys are right. Certain topics can bring out nasty stuff from people with strong opinions. I think everybody has a right to their opinions however radical or far-fetched. What they don't have a right to do is try to force them on others or be nasty about it. That leads to bad feelings and making enemies, and that's not what this forum is about!

So don't give up on the forum. Consider Jody's thread about Fender making steels again. Everybody came up with different notions of what should be - and essentially everybody agreed that if Fender makes Stringmasters again, all those differences need to be accomodated. And you made a couple of very good points that Jeff agreed with, and I agreed with him agreeing with you.

Consider tunings. Everybody has a different opinion of what are the best tunings, but nobody gets mad about it.
Or scale length, or what is the best amp, or what FX should be used etc etc.
We can all discuss these things and it doesn't matter if we disagree - in fact, that's the beautiful thing about Steel Guitar - everybody has a unique perspective on it.

So why don't you just hang out here with us Steel Players and we'll talk about Steel - no politics, religion, race, sexual orientation, gun control etc. - just cool stuff. Remember, opinions are like people - every @$$hole's got one . .

But no matter what you decide, please feel free to email me anytime about any subject you choose.

Rick

[This message was edited by Rick Alexander on 01 March 2005 at 12:50 PM.]

Randy Reeves · Post by **Randy Reeves** » 1 Mar 2005 12:55 pm

wow. Bill. Please dont go. I really appreciate your posts and experiences.
I stay away from political on these sites.
there are other forums .
This forum is one of the best that I have found.
one reason is because of posters as yourself.
please reconsider. either way, I totally respect your position and feelings.

Jody Carver · Post by **Jody Carver** » 1 Mar 2005 12:56 pm

Bill
Boy I know the feeling,,all I can say if you are serious,meet me on the Saw Mill River Parkway exit to the Tappan Zee Bridge and we'll both jump. You go first I hate cold water..I'll pay the toll.

Ya know what?? There are many who feel the same,but this is addicting,dont let anyone get you down my friend.This can be a real drag I agree. Do what you feel is best.

edited,,just wait till you see what Fender has planned,you'll be back.
Actually you have to give bOb Lee a two week notice so he can fill your spot

[This message was edited by Jody Carver on 01 March 2005 at 01:02 PM.]

Orville Johnson · Post by **Orville Johnson** » 1 Mar 2005 1:08 pm

i just went over and read the thread and, frankly, i don't understand what it is you've gotten so upset about. someone said something about 9/11 and hollywood and the federal budget and you seemed to be upset that anyone mentions 9/11 and the "yutz" in the white house...or something. i just don't get what went on there.

Steve Merritt · Post by **Steve Merritt** » 1 Mar 2005 1:23 pm

I read it and I dont understand why Bill is so upset either. I also don't understand why there is a thread on the Academy Awards (which is for the FILM industry) in the MUSIC section. Additionaly, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. It would be just as silly if someone got bent out of shape because you (Bill) said you thought Chris Rock was funny. However, if you are that sensitive, maybe this forum is not the right place for you. It's only a matter of time before someone else states their opinion and upsets you.

c c johnson · Post by **c c johnson** » 1 Mar 2005 1:25 pm

stay w/us. We luv ya! cc

Gene Jones · Post by **Gene Jones** » 1 Mar 2005 1:36 pm

An opinion, for whatever it's worth.

The Steel Guitar Forum consists of more than 4000 members, and their experience and diverse opinions have been the primary attraction and the "life-blood" of the Forum.

These differing opinions have historically been communicated with courtesy and mutual respect and with the acknowledgement that other opinions have value, even if someone believes they may be wrong.

However, there is an increasing number of those who have assumed a self-appointed status of being the utmost and final authority on any and every subject and will even quote from another's comment out of context with the obvious intention of displaying their profound wisdom in contrast to the profound ignorance of the original poster.

This lack of consideration for others is the primary reason for the increasing number of members who do not wish to expose themselves to ridicule by commenting on the Forum.
www.genejones.com

Jim Jasutis · Post by **Jim Jasutis** » 1 Mar 2005 1:37 pm

I just went and read the thread. I didn't watch the show, but the only thing I found remotely objectionable in the thread was calling our president a "yutz." I have no problem with people who don't agree with the budget making fun of it, but I do object to people disrespecting the president. Satire is one thing -- name calling is just over the line[This message was edited by Jim Jasutis on 01 March 2005 at 01:39 PM.]

CrowBear Schmitt · Post by **CrowBear Schmitt** » 1 Mar 2005 1:47 pm

Bill, i checked that thread out expecting something worse than what i read.
Honestly, i don't understand your gettin' uptight like that.
but then i'm not you.
OK, every once in awhile things go on a tangent cause of politics or religion, but this Forum has still got a great bunch of folks from many different walks of life & i get a kick out of all the diversity !
Takin' a break will do ya'some good Bill i'm sure
but i'll bet you that drive up the saw mill river parkway to meet Jody, that you'll be back here befo' you know it bro !
where you gonna go without the fo'bros man ?
you can run, but you can't hide
if the Knight of Tweed don't get ya', one of us will...
many men smoke, but Fumanchu, if the wolfman don't get ya' the Fo'bros do
once you in, you can never cut us loose
so take a breather & surmount this incident.
on 911 i was havin' my first day's vacation w: family and my/our vacation was ruined.
i know that there's not anyone here that did'nt get bent outta shape over 911
btw: my hood was up in Washington Heights / the Cloisters

edited: Good to see you back Gene

[This message was edited by CrowBear Schmitt on 01 March 2005 at 01:57 PM.]

Ray Minich · Post by **Ray Minich** » 1 Mar 2005 1:54 pm

Just keep the conversation away from the two dinnertime subjects that bring about flying tableware, you know... politics & religion. Works for me.

Mike D · Post by **Mike D** » 1 Mar 2005 1:54 pm

Bill, I quit posting and visiting another music forum over political nonsense. It's in general a poorly-moderated board (unlike this one) so comments got really out of hand, even the ones posted by the people who supposedly run the place. Fortunately they wised up and created a seperate section where people could beat each other over the head without cluttering up the main board, so I've been posting again, and staying far away from the source of my irritation.
No Peddlers is a great place where we discuss gittars and music in a pleasant atmosphere, and when things occasionally get hot Brad does a great job in cutting things off quickly.
Stick around, and ignore the irritations.

------------------
Half-assed bottleneck and lap slide player. Full-assed Builder of resonator instruments.

Ian McLatchie · Post by **Ian McLatchie** » 1 Mar 2005 2:03 pm

Everyone's offering you good advice, Bill. In my experience, people on this forum are generally enormously accepting of different points of view, and even open disagreements are respectfully stated. I have been told of a few cases of people sending derogatory emails, but schmucks like that are a tiny minority, and usually seem to disappear quickly enough. Stick around or you'll miss the fun.

Jody Carver · Post by **Jody Carver** » 1 Mar 2005 2:16 pm

Every Silver Screen Old time movie had a Cowboy and a sidekick.

GENE JONES is the COWBOY and I'm proud to be his sidekick.

READ WHAT HE WRITES AND SEE BEYOND..
Read every word and digest what Gene writes.

You may learn something..

Bill McCloskey · Post by **Bill McCloskey** » 1 Mar 2005 2:26 pm

Friends,

First, I want to thank all of you for your kind words and for those who sent emails. Some have wondered why I reacted the way I did and didn't see why I felt the way I did.

I guess you really had to be there to know how that day effected those of us who where there and that love New York. I had a meeting scheduled that day right across the street from the World Trade Center at 9 am that morning. It didn't happen. Instead we had the view of dozens of people throwing themselves out of windows to escape the fire. And the building collapsing around us. I live 20 miles north of the city in a town that is equal home to Stock Brokers and Firemen. Many in my town died. One of the members of our church was Welles Crowther, also know as the Man with the Red Bandana, because he used his red bandana to go back to his office time and time again to get people out. He saved many lives and died himself. My brother-in-law who is the principle bassist with the New York City Ballet wrote a requiem for Welles that is now being performed around the world.

One of the guys I go to bluegrass concerts with, Jimmy McClusky (no relation) was a fireman. In a month period he went to a hundred funerals. He spent everday going through the rubble. Last year he went to Scotland. He was sitting at a bar and some of the locals starting giving him crap about american and 9/11. He let it go on for a while and he handed them his fireman's union card. That shut them up. We lost so many people here, democrats, republicans, white, black, jewish, muslim, protestant. Those of us that witnessed those things don't talk about it much. I no I never do, and I wouldn't be talking about it now except as way of explaination.

Now, as I said, I'm a non political person. I don't like Bush much and never will and I'll blame him till the day I die for what I see is a senseless war, but that's besides the point. I don't care if people feel different, and I ignore those topics all the time. I understand who the majority of the folks are here.

But I guess when I saw 9/11 being used to denigrate anyone who criticises or pokes fun of anyone else, I have a strong reaction: more than I realized. Call it post tramatic stress syndrome. 9/11 shouldn't be used so cavaliarly or to put down any one whose political opinion you don't agree with. 9/11 had nothing to do with politics. 9/11 had everything to do with the people who died and the people who survived. It had everything to do with Welles saving lives, my brother-in-law trying to draw art out it, and Jimmy for looking for the pieces of fallen comrades. It had nothing to with what bush did or didn't do, our federal deficit problem, or the war in Iraq. It had to do with 3,000 american lives and countless souls left behind who try not to think about it very often.

I going to take a break and think about why I reacted the way I did. I guess I'm carring some grief I haven't let out. Then I'll come back and settle down here in the no peddlers section again. And won't venture out again.

Thanks for you time

bill[This message was edited by Bill McCloskey on 01 March 2005 at 02:27 PM.]