ZB Pedal Steel Guitars - Please help!

Lyle Clary · Post by **Lyle Clary** » 10 Feb 2006 5:59 pm

Henry, When I said improved pullers I guess what I really meant was pedal and knee levers were easier to change with the BMI setup.

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1969 ZB Custom D10, BMI S10, 1981 Peavy Musician Mark III, 15 Inch Black Widow, custom enclosure

Lyle Clary · Post by **Lyle Clary** » 10 Feb 2006 6:00 pm

Henry, When I said improved pullers I guess what I really meant was pedal and knee levers were easier to change with the BMI setup.

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1969 ZB Custom D10, BMI S10, 1981 Peavy Musician Mark III, 15 Inch Black Widow, custom enclosure

Mike Winter · Post by **Mike Winter** » 11 Feb 2006 9:01 am

I recently sold my old Maverick on eBay...made out just great. My friend Harley has graciously loaned me his old ZB Custom until I get my own, which will be "sometime." Anyway, I was wondering if I could be in the club temporarily, since technically I am playing a ZB?

Seriously, it was so cool of Harley to do this for me. It is a great sounding S-10, and I'm having a ball discovering the lever changes I had been missing with the Maverick. A public thank you Harley, you're the best! (Also, thanks to Doug Jones for tips and lessons here and there.)

FYI, here are the technical details: it is serial #0509 (Phoenix), black body/blonde neck, 4 pedals/4 knees, great tone, plays well.

BTW, if you guys ever get out to the Portland, Oregon area, be sure to catch Harley and his band The Buckles. They've got the Bakersfield sound nailed, and you'll see why Harley is considered one of the best players around.

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Mike
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Blue Moon Highway
(Country Music...and then some.)
www.bluemoonhighway.com

Larry Chung · Post by **Larry Chung** » 12 Feb 2006 12:17 pm

Hi Mike and Forum Members:

No membership needed in this "club". In fact, I hope this thread, long as it is, isn't taken as something that's exclusive or snobbish. It's been running for a long time, and I'm amazed at the continuted interest and posts. Thanks again to bOb for keeping it on the server, and to all of you for your input, stories, photos and memories.

Let me be clear about this thread - it's meant primarily as an information resource for all of the Forum folks, whether you play or have played a ZB or not, whether you own or have ever owned a ZB or not, and (especially) whether you like or love them or not. And also about your experiences with Zane Beck, founder, designer, great player and great person.

I'd rather share more information about your experiences with these guitars, good or bad, than less information, and I hope you all feel the same way!

The only membership requirement that I can think of is that you "must" love music and the steel guitar, too. So I think we can all join up...

All ZBest,
Larry

Mike Winter · Post by **Mike Winter** » 12 Feb 2006 3:29 pm

Larry, I asked about the club with tongue in cheek...sorry if I wasn't clear.

I used to drive an old air-cooled VW, and there was a similar vibe amongst the owners. It wasn't a club, per se, but it felt like one because there was a strong, common interest. I feel like the ZB vibe is similar.

It's been a great, informative thread. Please keep it up.

Here's another chance to thank b0b as well, for having such a great Forum. I have learned so much here. Thanks again.

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Mike
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Blue Moon Highway
(Country Music...and then some.)
www.bluemoonhighway.com

[This message was edited by Mike Winter on 12 February 2006 at 03:30 PM.][This message was edited by Mike Winter on 12 February 2006 at 05:05 PM.]

Duncan Hodge · Post by **Duncan Hodge** » 12 Feb 2006 3:36 pm

Welcome Mike. Yes you can be a member here anytime you like. They even let me stick around after I stupidly sold mine. I did get some ribbing when it bought it back.
Anyway, I recently bought some white fretboards from Kevin Hatton and put them on. Here is a picture with white fretboards a la Kevin. Wish me luck, this week I plan on totally changing the setup to make the E9 setup more like the setup on my SD-10. Maybe Greg will want to see it again so badly that he will want to ship it to Kentucky, change the setup for free, and then send it back to me. Maybe not. In any event, wish me luck.
Duncan

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 12 Feb 2006 7:06 pm

Duncan, the whites really dressed it up. I p-refer them over the black on most guitars.

Lyle Clary · Post by **Lyle Clary** » 17 Feb 2006 5:37 pm

Dear Duncan, I am jealous of your blue D10. I wish my blue one was as bright deep blue as yours. I guess 37 years has faded the colors a bit. Then again I do not believe when I got it were the colors that bright.

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1969 ZB Custom D10, BMI S10, 1981 Peavy Musician Mark III, 15 Inch Black Widow, custom enclosure

Russ Tkac · Post by **Russ Tkac** » 17 Feb 2006 6:35 pm

Duncan,

Looks good! I like the white too. I would have bet you would have bought that S-11 in the for sale section and had pictures posted by now.

Also, Greg is too busy with his Harley to mess with your ZB and Billy Knowles would rather be golfing.

Looks like you're on your own.

Have fun,
Russ

Larry Chung · Post by **Larry Chung** » 18 Feb 2006 8:07 am

Congrats, Duncan, the blue guitar looks lovely. You ZBers out there get to see a real treat with this one. Most blue (and other colors, too) ZBs have faded to either a battleship grey or even a dark brown. This one looks like it probably did when it left the "factory", sparkling deep blue showcasing the lovely striped maple that seems to be a hallmark of all of these guitars. Rumour has it that food coloring was actually used to tint the guitars... (Is that true?)

Mike, seriously, welcome to the thread.
Kevin, the white fretboards are definitely easier to see in a dark club. Only problem - after a set, it usually takes a few minutes for everything I look at to not have ZB position markers etched on them...
Russ, I would've bet YOU would have bought one of the ZBs for sale... (;
Lyle, my blue D-10 has faded, but still sounds like a champ. Every so often when I'm playing it or just passing by, the light will hit the finish at just the right angle and that birdseye/swirl will just pop right out. And then I have to stop and drool for awhile...

All ZBest,
LC

[This message was edited by Larry Chung on 18 February 2006 at 08:24 AM.]

Duncan Hodge · Post by **Duncan Hodge** » 18 Feb 2006 1:40 pm

Thanks for all the nice words on the blue ZB, guys. I believe that it may have been refinished and reblued by Greg before I got it. It also supposedly has a finish that can withstand a near miss with a nuclear weapon.
Russ, I already said that I have all the ZB's a rational man could want. I decided to leave a few for everyone else. I'm not sure where I stand on the rationality scale, though. I still have been hesitant to monkey with the setup on the blue one, but I have to get it closer to the red one, or I'll lose what little mind I have left. I'm sure I'll have lots of questions about what I did wrong.
Duncan

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 18 Feb 2006 1:47 pm

Duncan, that finish was put on your guitar up here by Marvin Fluger of Fluger Resonators. I watched it happen. Its hard body polyurethane. It won't ding, scratsh or check. Marvin does the best finishes I've ever seen.

Russ Tkac · Post by **Russ Tkac** » 18 Feb 2006 2:14 pm

Larry,

I sold my D-10 to Rusty Rogers in California and I'm a one ZB guy right now. The D11/10 has more than I know what to do with. It does have the white fret boards and sounds great. I may need to do a split case when I get some money. Duncan two ZB's... you are a lucky man.

Russ

Ben Elder · Post by **Ben Elder** » 18 Feb 2006 3:25 pm

I was going to wait until mid-week to post, but the direction here is perfect for this. For a real-world blue ZB, here are some pics of an S-10 (the one on eBay in late December; s/n 0064) fairly* unaltered (and apparently largely unattended, but for the discarding of its case) for most of its 36 years:

<img src=http://home.earthlink.net/~efgacb/siteb ... b00641.jpg>

Nixon-era dust and Ford Administration crazing, I'm guessing:

<img src=http://home.earthlink.net/~efgacb/siteb ... b00647.jpg>

"That can't really be an original blue ZB...":

<img src=http://home.earthlink.net/~efgacb/siteb ... b00653.jpg>

And just for some comedy relief, someone thought the single factory KL* (which is RKR; the one below is apparently LKWhatever) wasn't enough:

<img src=http://home.earthlink.net/~efgacb/siteb ... .jpg>[This message was edited by Ben Elder on 18 February 2006 at 03:27 PM.][This message was edited by Ben Elder on 18 February 2006 at 03:28 PM.][This message was edited by Ben Elder on 18 February 2006 at 08:51 PM.]

Henry Nagle · Post by **Henry Nagle** » 18 Feb 2006 3:40 pm

That'll be a really cool guitar, Ben. Are you going to attempt the setup yourself? Refinish or "shabby chic"?

B. Greg Jones · Post by **B. Greg Jones** » 18 Feb 2006 3:42 pm

Duncan, your guitar was originally blue/blonde. I sent the body and necks to Marvin Fluger and he matched the original blue right on. As Kevin said, his finishes are flawless and very durable. I have a Fluger Reso that has been knocked off its stand on stage. The only thing that was damaged was the speaker cabinet that it hit!!! Thats how tough the finishes are. Your guitar by the way, is a 69' model built in Bakersfield and the original dye color WAS food coloring. Thats one reason they fade so bad. Your guitar is gonna look like new long after you and I are gone!!!!

Russ, the Harley is sitting, not working on it. Aint had the time to mess with it, got too many ZB's here and more on the way. You gonna make it back to Renfro Valley this year??

Greg

Duncan Hodge · Post by **Duncan Hodge** » 18 Feb 2006 3:56 pm

I'm sorry about the misinformation about Mr. Fluger refinishing my blue ZB. I remember Greg telling me about it, but that was a year ago. Who can remember things a year ago. In any event, I can attest that a dropped tone bar does not equal a bar ding with this finish. It is absolutely perfect. Thank you Marvin Fluger.
So, Greg, as I change the copedent of this fine instrument, any words of wisdom, or advice? Anything I should keep in mind? I can't break the whole instrument by moving a few rods...can I? I know that I must sound like some kind of a whiner, which I probably am, but I have only attempted some minor repairs and changes on my ZB's. I plan on completely changing at least three, and possibly four, knee levers. The only thing I am planning on keeping is raising the E's on the LKL. I forgot to mention that I am mechanically inept, but I do have a lot of tools that appear to work.
BTW, Henry, how's your new ZB?
Duncan[This message was edited by Duncan Hodge on 18 February 2006 at 03:58 PM.]

Ben Elder · Post by **Ben Elder** » 18 Feb 2006 4:52 pm

I've been given a temporary reprieve from house fix-up for our Tuesday inspection, so I'll elaborate a bit more on what I'd intended to hold until mid-week.

Addressing Henry's question: While I cleave strongly to the vintage acoustic guitar sensibility of retaining an instrument's original finish except in the most dire and extreme circumstances (imminent disintegration of the guitar at a minimum), I expect I will eventually have this re-done in the original blue/natural scheme. (But with some disquiet, I notice a recent post mentioning the diversions that are presently occupying the attentions of Messrs. Jones and Knowles.) From the pictures previously posted, it is a given that a white fretboard will be ordered from Kevin Hatton. (This one's plastic or vinyl--I think my old D-10 #0131 had metal fingerboards...?)

First things first, I will be trying to get this up to Bakersfield for an audience with this ZB's likely father--John Rutledge--for a mechanical look-see and perhaps some long rods. It's obvious that a disassembly, cleaning and lubricating of metal parts should be done immediately. (I am, however, putting on new strings to see if I can get it approximately into tune.) I will undertake mechanical upgrades (adding KLs, for one example) based on whatever John's observations may be.

While I did post the photo of the cockamamie second KL, otherwise it looks like the mechanics and undercarriage are mostly unmolested. 5 pedals, 1 (real) KL just as the catalogs of the day show and state.

I took 29 or so digital photos (some redundancy of angles and views) to document its "Before" condition and I am sending a CD of these to Larry, keeper of the archive and fount of knowledge, for whatever value these may have to that end.

Russ Tkac · Post by **Russ Tkac** » 18 Feb 2006 8:13 pm

Hi Greg,

I had a great time last year. I'll sure look at driving down for a few days. We need to find a day and have all the ZB nuts come to Renfro Valley to hear that nice Mullen! Oops!

Russ

Henry Nagle · Post by **Henry Nagle** » 18 Feb 2006 8:44 pm

Hey Duncan!
I talked to Greg a few hours ago. He's changing the setup for me and adding a knee lever. He thinks it'll be ready to ship early next week. I'm eager- to say the least.[This message was edited by Henry Nagle on 19 February 2006 at 12:46 AM.]

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 19 Feb 2006 12:41 am

Ben, breath new life into that puppy. We will help you. I have adjustable mirror polished aluminum knee levers if you need them. If you need it refinished email me. Marvin Fluger's finishes are flawless. If anyone gets a chance to see Greg Jones at Renfro Valley, go. The band is amazing. Full featured country complete with Bun Wilson a classic comedian. Greg's playing is right on the mark for the classic country songs. Thoroughly enjoyable and entertaining. If you are lucky Greg will take one of his ZB's out and play it on the show for you. Amazing sound.[This message was edited by Kevin Hatton on 19 February 2006 at 12:43 AM.]

Chuck Hall · Post by **Chuck Hall** » 19 Feb 2006 10:03 am

You guys going for a thousand??
Good luck and keep on ZB'ing
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Chuck
Country Fever Band

[This message was edited by Chuck Hall on 19 February 2006 at 10:07 AM.]

B. Greg Jones · Post by **B. Greg Jones** » 19 Feb 2006 10:06 am

Duncan, send me an email on what you want to do. I still have the set-up on your guitar written down so I should be able to get you through the knee lever changes OK.

Russ, hey the Mullen has angled endplates kinda like a ZB!!!! Next time you are down there will be a ZB onstage. The one I have been wanting to use is my D-11-10, 8 & 8. All the knees need moved to the right and I just haven't had the time to work on my own stuff. WHich reminds me, Marvin has one of my bodies that he is refinishing and I would like to send him my 66' D-10, but thats down the road.

Kevin, thanks for the kind words. The old ZB does fit right in with the classic country we play at Renfro. Actually plan on playing the ZB's alot more this year and my Sho~Bud when it gets finished.

Greg

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 21 Feb 2006 10:45 pm

ZB tip of the month. Next time you change strings, inspect your changer caps for grooves worn in by the strings. If you have any grooves you can sand them out using sand paper and finish off with light emory paper. Some changer caps are aluminum and some are stainless steel. The aluminum ones obviously where out easier. I put a drop of oil on them when I'm finished. I find that the worn grooves can cause the string to sound like a zither and you lose sustain. Hope this helps. Keep me in mind for split cases with wheels if you need them. Plush velour interiors.

Pat Kelly · Post by **Pat Kelly** » 22 Feb 2006 2:46 am

That's cool Kevin. A ZB Zither!