The Steel Guitar Forum

Thanks John, That really helped.

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1969 ZB Custom D10, BMI S10, 1981 Peavy Musician Mark III, 15 Inch Black Widow, custom enclosure

I haven't done much work under my guitar since I got it. Just a bit of adjustment here and there and a bit of spray lubricant.
For a while I had felt that the "throw" on the E lower lever was too great and finally resolved to do something about it. I needed to put a longer threaded bolt on the cross bar to connect to the pull rods. To do this I needed to disconnect a good number of other pull rods because the E lower rods were now travelling a different path. Anyway, to cut a long story short I achieved what I wanted and the throw on the E lower is now pretty close to what I wanted.
The problem?
My A 5th now won't lower back reliably after a raise. I've tracked this to the C pedal as disconnecting this pedal's cross plate and letting the rods "float" gets rid of the problem testing against the A pedal.

I've read other posts on this problem and checked the usual suspects. The rods seem free. Friction points are lubricated etc. The changer must be adequately lubricated or the change wouldn't return on the A pedal (right or wrong).

What's next?

Pat, With the guitar upside down, press your A pedal and watch what the 5th string changer finger does> It should return to the inside of the endplate when you let off the pedal. If it doesn't, make sure the pull rod on string 5 is not too tight or the hook end in the changer is not hanging up on another pullrod. Also the endplate tuners: If you dont have a change on any finger, raise or lower do not tighten the tuners all the way down. Lets say pedal A raises the 5th string one whole tone. If you dont have a lower on that string and have the lowering tuner tight against the endplate, it puts a bind on the changer finger and it will hang up and work stiff.

The other thing you need to look at is the lowering finger for that pull. If you press the A pedal and the lowering finger moves with the raise finger, you need to tighten the lowering spring just enough to hold the lowering finger in place during a raise. If not you are getting way more travel to get the raise than you should and it can also bind when the finger is pulled too far.

If the changer finger is returning back to the endplate then, you need to check the nut rollers. The string can be hanging up there. They need to be cleaned and oiled.
This is the same for the changer end also.

Hope some of this helps, Happy New Year!!!

Greg

Thanks for the input Greg. The roller nuts are free and the fingers seem to be 0perating correctly. I may have tightened up the pull rod connectors too much when I put them back in. I'm assuming that this would provide some possible tension in the rods working against the return spring.

I didn't want them flopping around so I tightened them up nice and taut.

At the moment I'm going to pull the C pedal rods out again and put them back with less tension. Obviously the rods shouldn''t be hanging around too loose. What is an optimal compromise between too loose and interfering with the return spring? Any guide on this or is it trial and error and experience.

Thanks again and A Happy and Prosperous New year.

If its on a raise, how tight you have the pull rods will not affect the lowering spring. When you tighten up your pull rods, you need to leave a little slack in them. Not enough that they fall out of the slots in the changer.

You also need to watch the pull rods when you are balancing them. You want the pulls to end up on the endplate at the same time and this requires that each pull rod has to be different on a ZB. When you are adjusting 1 rod and get it too tight, the other pullrod on that pedal will end up too tight also.

Sounds like you have them a little too snug. Back each one off while watching the changer, just enough to let the changer rest on the inside of the endplate. Email me if ya need any more help.

Greg

<font size="1" color="#8e236b"><p align="center">[This message was edited by Craig A Davidson on 03 January 2006 at 08:46 PM.]</p></FONT>

Blonde D10 8/4 #0560 just showed up on the doorstep thanks to Kevin. Sounds like a million bucks. Does someone e-mail me the password and secret handshake?

Congratulations, Jon:

No secret handshake required. Just that silly looking grin that will appear on your face once you start playing your ZB. I would recommend a towel to wipe off the drool around your mouth as you play.

I'll add you to the database and my compliments, also, to Kevin for finding and sharing such a lovely guitar with the folks on the Forum.

All ZBest,
Larry

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Larry Chung
'67 ZB D-10 8+4 (ser. #1077)
'69 ZB S-10 3+4 (ser. #0124)
'70 ZB D-10 8+4 (ser.# 0215)
'71 ZB Custom S-11 4+4 (ser. #0252)

Welcome aboard Jon. You got a good one. Any questions we are always here.

My pedals,ab, were getting very heavy to press but because it happened slow I didn't realise until it became quite a problem . A few drops of light oil on the changer and hey presto problem fixed . I was always shy about lubricating pedal steels after the mess my P/P got into but I think with the ZB it is needed. I know this has been discussed before but this is a little reminder to people like myself who do their maintenance when it stops working.
Brendan

Hi folks....

Am I correct in assuming that any ZB with formica is a student model?

Hi Henry:

I'm not aware of any student or pro model ZBs that had a formica covering or body. The student model ZBs I've seen (and owned) had a particle board body with a colorful (blue, red, or black) plastic covering over the top and keyhead, and a thick metal frame (like an old Fender pedal steel) surrounding the outer edge of the body.

They usually came with three pedals and one knee lever. The changer was just like the pro model, but the pickup only had one setting with one coil (unlike the pro models, where you could choose 1, 2 or three coils).

Nice guitars, and I believe Zane Beck recorded a complete album to demonstrate the student steel.

Perhaps what you've seen is a BMI? Many if not all of these were formica, and used the same type of changer as the ZB. (Beck Musical Instruments, Zane Beck Guitars, hmmm...)

All ZBest,
Larry<font size="1" color="#8e236b"><p align="center">[This message was edited by Larry Chung on 09 January 2006 at 08:45 AM.]</p></FONT>

Well I just learned that I don't belong to this great Z B club..After much searching I've learned that my PSG is actualy a "Blanton"..The guy I got it from said it was built by Zane Beck,but I found pics. and info that proves it is a Blanton,built by Jerry Blanton.Now my quest is for more info on this great sounding guitar.You ZBers have fun..LOVE this forum..PJ

Papa Joe. Too bad you don't have a ZB we live so close together! I've heard great things about the Blanton.

Russ

Larry,
I have the mica zb that henry was asaking about. I checked with several sources and found it to be "legally" a zb but not one of the zb desirables. It was made in the early 90s by Basil Smith in Evansville, Indiana. Bud Hall a steel dealer in Evansville said he had it in his shop at one time years ago when Basil was trying to continue building zbs. I sent pictures to Bud and also Kevin Hatton and both agreed it was a ZB, but not one of the desirable ones. Just thought you would like to know where the ZBs ended.
I enjoy your thread and hope it doesn't die.
Lyndel

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Hello guys,
I'm in the middle of a makeover on my 69-70 D-10. I'm changing the setup, now that I believe...I hope that I believe, that I have finally learned to work on the beast. I'm even putting on some really cool white fretboards that I got from Kevin. By the way, Larry, if you want my old black fretboards send me your address and I'll send them to you. The question I have is what kind of tuners fit on this vintage ZB. I have a couple of very tired old ones that have just come apart. The local music stores don't have ones that fit. They are too wide for the holes. One local guy offered to drill out the holes, but I don't believe that my ZB is ready for such an intrusion. I believe that Sam Ash in Orlando has the right ones, but am looking for some suggestions. Thanks.
Duncan
<font size="1" color="#8e236b"><p align="center">[This message was edited by Duncan Hodge on 24 January 2006 at 06:10 PM.]</p></FONT>

Hi Lyndel:

Thanks for the information about your ZB and also for your well-wishes. I'm delighted that this thread continues to grow and that these wonderful guitars are still out there being played and loved.

Duncan - you have mail! (:

ZBest,
Larry

OK, but can we stop after 1,000 posts? (Please?)

I hope not. This is more fun to read than shipping problems about saxophones.

Yeah,keep it goin. As a matter of fact, I'd like to see the players, using other brands, starting posts and talking about thier guitars.Sure make it easier to gather info on a particular brand.
Hey Russ,We should get together for a coffee break some time..I'd like to meet you and pick your brain. PJ

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Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body,but rather to skid in broadside,thoroughly used up,totally worn out,and loudly proclaiming:"WOW,what a ride!"

In an earlier thread on this page., Larry mentioned that BMI used the same changers as the ZB's. My 69 has a type that uses the bent rod at the changer and the turn buckles . I guess my question is when did ZB/BMI go to the improved changer with the nylon nuts?

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1969 ZB Custom D10, BMI S10, 1981 Peavy Musician Mark III, 15 Inch Black Widow, custom enclosure

I haven't seen the whole line of ZB's & even though both the ZB & BMI were designed by Zane Beck, the changer on my ZB vs. the changer on the BMI is different. As most or all of you know, the ZB changer has slots where the pull rod hooks into & a threaded rod welded to the changer sticking through a hole in the endplate. The tuner screws onto that rod. When you step on the pedals the tuner pulls against & rests on the endplate, & I think that is one of the factors in the "ZB sound", much like the push pull Emmons. The BMI I owned had a changer with holes that the pull rod went through, & the tuner was screwed onto the pull rod itself (with nylon & steel bullet nose spacers), much like modern all pull guitars. The tuner does not rest against the endplate, but either goes through holes or a routed out space in the endplate. Those two changer's in those guitars are different.

Improvement? I personally prefer the feel of ZB (and Kline) endplate tuners. - Not that there's anything wrong with feeling opposite .

Hey Henry,
Congrats on the new ZB. When will you be posting some pictures of the "new guy"?
Duncan

Just to let everyone know. I am making custom split cases covered in genuine Fender Tolex for ZB's now. There's one case for the body and another for the pedal rack and legs. The body case has external wheels at one end and a spring handle at the other. Makes transporting a breeze. The cases are lined with plush velour. Premium shiny hardware. Wine color is standard, but I can do any color including Zebra and Tiger. VERY classy looking cases. $295.00 for the set. Email me for pictures. I will be making them for Emmons Push/Pulls and Sho-Buds also. <font size="1" color="#8e236b"><p align="center">[This message was edited by Kevin Hatton on 01 February 2006 at 09:32 PM.]</p></FONT><font size="1" color="#8e236b"><p align="center">[This message was edited by Kevin Hatton on 10 February 2006 at 10:40 PM.]</p></FONT>