The Steel Guitar Forum

Well, after 45 years and many combo amps, [mostly Peaveys that have been virtually trouble free,] amp heads and speaker cabs, I'm back to a Fender Twin Reverb. I went down to our local music store this morning and picked up the only one they had, [still in the box,] and brought it home, knowing that I had a month to decide that I didn't like it and take it back. The only problem is; I do like it, and now everything else that I have is obsolete. Yes, it is a big amp, but manageable due to the unbelievable light weight. All the guys in the music store had to lift it up before I brought it home to see how light it is. Of course they have been used to moving the tube twins around weighing 2 or 3 times as much as the TM Twin. I didn't try it against a tube twin, but at age 79 I wouldn't go there again, and this amp sounds just great. There is nothing I don't like about this amp. Even the handle works good Jack. ha

My outlook is that it seems we have all compared steel amps over the years to the Peavey standard of amps. At one time, every great steel player we know and emulated got their sound from a Peavey.

Not considering weight, how does the TM compare in sound to a Peavey? That’s how I have compared all my amp experimenting the last several years. Remember that in the early 60’s the Twin was the amp we used, until Peavey blew the Twin away. Do we want to go back in time?

Yes Ron that's true about going back in time. I was living in Orange County Calif in the early 70s and when Peavey came out with the Session and LTD 400s I put my twin with JBLs next to my LTD400, and a couple of months later sold my twin in like new condition for $200.00 in favor of keeping the LTD400 with a 15" JBL. Now, all these years later I've found that I really like the sound of the new TM Twin. I still have a Peavey Nashville 112 and plan to keep it. But for me, at this time, I really like the new/old sound of the twin. I would never have considered a tube twin at my age no matter how good it may sound. As to how the sound compares to Peavey? It's apples and oranges. They both sound good, just different.

George Macdonald wrote:Yes Ron that's true about going back in time. I was living in Orange County Calif in the early 70s and when Peavey came out with the Session and LTD 400s I put my twin with JBLs next to my LTD400, and a couple of months later sold my twin in like new condition for $200.00 in favor of keeping the LTD400 with a 15" JBL. Now, all these years later I've found that I really like the sound of the new TM Twin. I still have a Peavey Nashville 112 and plan to keep it. But for me, at this time, I really like the new/old sound of the twin. I would never have considered a tube twin at my age no matter how good it may sound. As to how the sound compares to Peavey? It's apples and oranges. They both sound good, just different.

Thx George. good to hear that.

My TM should arrive tomorrow. After all the positive reviews, I couldn't resist.
I have been playing in a loud band, and carry a Stereo Steel rack and 2 15 JBL cabs. The tone is glorious and volume is never an issue. However, its getting old having to carry all that, plus another rig for Tele, and mikes for all of it, and cables for speakers and mikes.. Turns into a job to load and unload everything constantly. Its out of control when the drummer is long gone after a gig, and I am still winding cables, and tearing down my seat......
My hope is, I can run double duty with the TM, and save myself a ton of work. Going direct out will save all the mikes and cables. Combo will save on speaker cables and three trips, plus an amp stand for the rack head. The more I think about it, the more I am looking forward to the simplicity of the TM, and not to keep talking about the weight......but the weight!!!

So far I have read not one thing from TM owners that would make me hesitate to buy any longer, so here goes!!

Larry, I hope you post how it works out for double duty. I have the same dilemma doing the same. Too much stuff to carry. I did a double last night with a Quilter micropro mach2. Channel one for steel and 2 for guitar. Used a stomp pedal for guitar and I had an extra 1x12 cabinet plugged in. Not my best tone for bith. It was a compromise at best.

A friend of mine who is a total tube amp snob used the Deluxe version of the Tone Master. It was a back line amp at one of his gigs while on tour. He said it blew away at least 90% of the back line amps he’s used as a touring musician...

So what settings are you guys using with the T.M.???
Ken

Larry Dering wrote:Larry, I hope you post how it works out for double duty. I have the same dilemma doing the same. Too much stuff to carry. I did a double last night with a Quilter micropro mach2. Channel one for steel and 2 for guitar. Used a stomp pedal for guitar and I had an extra 1x12 cabinet plugged in. Not my best tone for bith. It was a compromise at best.

I sure will Larry!
Im sure hoping it will work well. I play a lot of lap slide with a small bit of overdrive. I plan to use the non reverb channel for that. Can line out for both. I will be all smiles if it goes like I am hoping, worst scenario, I still have to bring two amps. Still saving me at least a couple cables, a mike, and weight!

Well, this Tone Master seems to be the real deal like so many have stated.
Now my seat weighs more than my amp, loaded with stuff of course!
The hype is for real!!

Hi Dan. How did the gig go? Any new thoughts regarding the TM? Curious to hear what you thought under real world circumstances.

Also, I’m curious if you have done this A/B amp test against your ‘71 Twin, but taken the loudspeaker difference out of the equation? What I’m proposing is recording some clips with the Tone Master, then record the same clips with the ‘71 Twin, but drive the Tone Master speakers directly from the Twin speaker out jack
When making these comparative recordings, DON’T MOVE ANYTHING AROUND. Leave the mic placed as it was. Don’t move amps, guitars, nuttin!. Just change the device you’re driving the speakers with from the TM head to the 71Twin. Can you get these amps close enough together back to back to make the speaker jack swap?
Just a thought. I find this all very interesting, but I can’t tell how much of what I’m hearing is nuance of the loudspeakers versus nuance of the electrical amplifiers.

Well, with either amp, I enjoyed listening to the short clips you provided. Very nice playing! Also, good choices to demonstrate different dynamics presented to the amps. Thank you for having done this and sharing your findings.

Hi Mark,

with some Gerry-rigging, I did plug the Tone Master into my more familiar speakers, and determined that a major difference between the '71 Twin and the Tone Master was the speakers. Personally, I simply have never played through a neo speaker that I felt sounded as good as its conventional equivalent. I know for others that is not the case: to each their own.

Of course, putting conventional speakers in the Tone Master immediately cuts into one of its main advantages: its low weight. My solution was to swap out just one of the neos. Since to my ear the neos are a little "darker" (for lack of a better term), I opted for a relatively bright speaker, a Celestion Vintage 30, based largely on recommendations in other forum posts. I liked the results a lot in my music room, so I took it on the gig last week. The amp weighed about five pounds more than stock, but that still keeps it several pounds under my Deluxe Reverb, so I'm willing to go that far. (To be honest, though, the larger cabinet size of the Twin makes it seem like it's heavier that the smaller Deluxe. Go figure.)

The amp performed beautifully on an extremely loud stage. (Why do people play so damn loud??) The tube amp users in the band and an amp builder in the audience were stunned at how much the TM sounded like a tube twin. I was too during sound checks. But, to be honest, I played with ear plugs in so I couldn't really make any detailed observations about the sound. I did pull them out for one song just to hear the TM better (should have chosen a slow ballad, though), and it did sound like a twin (i.e., like a too-loud tube amp on a too-loud stage).

I'm still paying off this purchase, so I'm not in a position to spend more money to try more speaker options right now, but down the road I'll probably order a 1x15" baffle and try something like a Weber California, or a JBLD-130 if I can get my hands on one that doesn't break the bank. Either would probably mean about the same weight overall as the neo+Celestion. On the other hand, I kind of like the 2x12 sound for now.

Well this is all super interesting to me. I have a couple of amps I play the steel through. One is a re-issue Twin Reverb about a decade old that I built a new baffle for holding a 15” neo Celestion. The original baffle and speakers are resting in the corner. The other amp is an original Deluxe Reverb from 1964. That one is all original except for a Weber Ferromax 12” I installed. The original speaker is also tucked away.

I find myself vacillating between these two amps a lot as far as preference. Neither gets played all that loud, and the only one that leaves my house is the Deluxe. I’ve never had to play it anywhere where it wasn’t sufficiently loud, and the Twin just weighs too damn much to haul around.

Overall, I’d have to say the Deluxe is my overall favorite of the two, but in a situation as you describe playing with a really loud band, perhaps it may fall short power wise. So, when you got a chance to play this Tone Master Twin cranked up, and it still passed muster, that’s saying a lot. At the diminutive levels you demonstrated in your audio clips, both amps sounder pretty sweet. Thanks again for your observations!

Mark, that's interesting: my current amp line up is similar to yours. My main amp is a reissue deluxe with a ferromax (12f150b), both at home and at gigs. The TM Twin will be for louder gigs.

I should add that the TM has a couple of nice flexibility features over the Fender tube amps. First, it has a built in attentuator. I was rehearsing the other day with a singer songwriter and bass player. I dialed the Twin down to 22 watts and it was a perfect sound for that ensemble. Second, the TM Twin has an XLR line out. I forgot to mention that I used that last week to the too-loud gig (because, if the stage volume is already deafening, of course they wanted to boost it through the PA )

If I were buying a Twin today, I’m CERTAIN I would have chosen a Tone Mater over the vacuum tube & iron version. Better suited for my purposes anyway. It’s a bit cheaper too, if I’m not mistaken
Truly, amplifer issues are just another source of frustration and bewilderment added to an already frustrating and bewildering instrument. What masochists we must all be !

i echo dan's statements; the attenuator and the xlr out with ir gives this amp way more flexibility than an original tube twin. my tube twin was collecting dust most of the time. it was either too heavy to bring to gigs, or too loud to practice with at home.

it seems like most steel players don't use stock speakers with their twins. most seem to be swapping in jbls or altecs. i think that this is the case with the tonemaster as well. i have a set of weber neo mags coming this weekend. maybe that'll get things into jbl territory. as dan says, there's not too much point in putting 45 pounds of speaker in this amp. hopefully the neomags will do the trick.

The TMTR may be good for steel, but I always find that SS falls short when it comes to guitar, which is half my night of gigging. I am gonna try one when they come to my local big box,but I find that modeling amps, while getting close to the sound of tubes, fail to capture the feel, touch sensitivity & dynamics of tubes. So, my guess is...I ain't gonna like it for guitar. Just like my PV Renown 1-15" sounds great for steel, it fails for guitar.

Rich, our lead player who is a "must have Fender tube amp" guy is sold on my Tone Master Twin Reverb amp. So much that he is seriously considering getting one.

We tried my amp beside his Blackface Pro Reverb using his Fender (USA) Strat guitar and couldn't hear any difference.

Rich Upright wrote:The TMTR may be good for steel, but I always find that SS falls short when it comes to guitar, which is half my night of gigging. I am gonna try one when they come to my local big box,but I find that modeling amps, while getting close to the sound of tubes, fail to capture the feel, touch sensitivity & dynamics of tubes. So, my guess is...I ain't gonna like it for guitar. Just like my PV Renown 1-15" sounds great for steel, it fails for guitar.

Rich,

We designed these amps to be great for guitarists first and foremost and the feedback from players has been great! The Deluxe will break up just like a tube version and it's a lot of fun to play and the "feel" is great!

The fact that it works exceptionally well for steel is just icing one the cake. Hope you have a chance to go play them in person so you can decide for yourself. I will be honest, they have been sold out in a lot stores these days.

Wondering if there is a way to get reverb on both channels (normal & vibrato). I know this is a popular mod on "real" twins, especially for those of us who do double duty. Perhaps this could be done through the usb firmware connector?

I was checking out the tone master at Gary’s last week. The weight was amazing. The ability to switch it to a .2 watt amp and the direct out were really amazing. It’s making me reconsider my JC 77.

Mark did an informative video. https://youtu.be/xbdypKYyQ-Y

i swapped out the jensen speakers with weber neo mags, which lots of folks say sound similar to jbl d120s. i've never used a jbl d120, so i wouldn't know.

the speaker swap changes the tone drastically as you can imagine. the original speakers were quite dark and muffled by comparison. they had a nice warm sound, but not very good clarity, especially on the lower strings. the neo mags are an improvement for the sound i'm going for. they are a bit heavier, but i think the amp is still under 40 pounds.

with the speaker swap, i'd take the tonemaster over any stock tube twin. i guess if it were a vintage twin with jbls i'd think about it until i had to lift one of them.

I posted my experience on a newer thread. A terrific six stringer in one of my bands is using one, and he sounds good. I bought one from a local store with a 30 day return policy. Used it at home for 10 days , and then took it to a gig. I really wanted to like this 33lb amp. But the tone did not measure up to my regular gigging amps..72 Deluxe Reverb,68 Drip-edge Pro Reverb , and 79 Twin with the Ultralinear transformer in Rick Johnson split cabs. The amp looked like a Twin , the dials were in the same place, but it didn't sound like a twin , and definitely didn't sound like a tube amp at all. The single notes didn't sustain, the tone was sterile, and I twisted dials all night, but was unable to dial in an acceptable tone with a Derby Steel, Goodrich pot pedal, Carbon copy delay. I mean no disrespect to players that like this amp, But I just wanted to offer a different perspective. The amp lacked the warmth of tube amps that I use, and in fact sounded kinda dead.I returned it and was relieved that I wasn't stuck with an uninspiring sounding amp.I'm sticking with tubes. Congrats to the many that can achieve a good sound with the Tonemaster. I wasn't one of them.

Joseph Napolitano wrote:I posted my experience on a newer thread. A terrific six stringer in one of my bands is using one, and he sounds good. I bought one from a local store with a 30 day return policy. Used it at home for 10 days , and then took it to a gig. I really wanted to like this 33lb amp. But the tone did not measure up to my regular gigging amps..72 Deluxe Reverb,68 Drip-edge Pro Reverb , and 79 Twin with the Ultralinear transformer in Rick Johnson split cabs. The amp looked like a Twin , the dials were in the same place, but it didn't sound like a twin , and definitely didn't sound like a tube amp at all. The single notes didn't sustain, the tone was sterile, and I twisted dials all night, but was unable to dial in an acceptable tone with a Derby Steel, Goodrich pot pedal, Carbon copy delay. I mean no disrespect to players that like this amp, But I just wanted to offer a different perspective. The amp lacked the warmth of tube amps that I use, and in fact sounded kinda dead.I returned it and was relieved that I wasn't stuck with an uninspiring sounding amp.I'm sticking with tubes. Congrats to the many that can achieve a good sound with the Tonemaster. I wasn't one of them.

Joseph, sorry the amp wasn't for you. The reality is that no one amp will do everything for everyone. This amp isn't really much like an ultra linear amp since it's based on a 60s version so that may be some of the tonal difference.

I'm still keeping all my tube amps but I've found many great tones that work for me and my Emmons P/P and I'm excited to play out with it but I appreciate you gave it a shot. Cheers.

Many years ago, I owned a Yamaha digital modeling combo amp (100 W 2x12), the one where all the chicken head knobs turned by themselves when you changed the program settings. The sound was absolutely awesome, with clean headroom way up in the stratosphere, but there was a very annoying latency – it felt very strange, like constantly playing a bit out of time, which made it impossible to use.

I bet issues like that have been addressed in the Tonemaster amps, with today's much more powerful processors?