Getting tone I want - Newby question alert!!

[Steve Leal]

I'll tell you what. The one thing that improved my sound instantaneously was when I bought me a Peterson VSS-C tuner which has a tempered tuning programmed for pedal steel. I know there are lots of debates about methods of tuning and what not, but I kid you not, this $200 tuner will save you tons of time and tuning knowledge. Also, try different diameter bars. Smaller bars give me more dexterity and allow me to see the fret lines more accurately, but you want to make sure the bar is heavy enough for the low end of the guitar to not buzz out. Larger bars give me a mellower smoother tone, but I am not as fast and accurate playing with them. I had a custom bar made for me that was 3/4" (Jerry Byrd size) but 3.25" length to be long enough for 10 string. Bullet Bars made it for me and I am very pleased.

[Mike McCorry]

I am not even qualified to carry a steel case. That said, I have been playing guitar for over 50 years. I have tones only I have. (about time)..the trick I think is to get a "sound" and always default to that. Room size, vol. levels, etc. If you have a tube amp you can tune it. If a tube amp put your ear to the speaker(s) nothing plugged into the amp, turn Vol depending on amp, to approx noon/1pm. Leave any bright switches etc off, start with what comes up first. No effects, no reverb..turn treb knob, when you hear the amp white noise shift, leave it, same with all other knobs. Start there, as you rotate the knobs you will hear the amp "shift" freq in the white noise, good spots to start at that shift. Solid State, here is my total rig. Money invested, 200.00 for all of it.
I use delay and a touch of reverb, same as on my guitar. You can tune the delay as well. When adjusting parameters on delay, depending on what you have, pluck a higher string, E G# etc...turn the knob on the delay you will hear the string de-tune then come back go pitch as knob is rotated. My whole thing with delay is that you can't really pick it out, I don;t do the tap tap tap tap etc..I widen the sound. I am using an Ibanez Digital DM1100 rack..however my delay of choice for the past 15 years are the old Dan Electro steel case dan echo's...cheap, work, sound good, and blend well. I don;t like cave sounding delay on my guitar, anything that smooshes things together is not what I want..Clean, big smooth...it can be done. If you are a guitar player, then hunt it down, at the end of the day these are guitars. You will find it. Record it, I use a tascam hand held, sounds great, easy to use...play it back with phones, listen...pick out what it needs or has too much of...go from there. I believe I would rather play 5 killer notes/chords than 100 not so good. I tend to keep guitars, all kinds, amps however, are my weakness...Its a sickness I have had more than I can count, I currently play old fenders, and Dr. Z'z...and this gem for a steel amp...
... I know its a Bandit, old one..75 watts..not playing an arena, small clubs, it really works. I am not an amp tech, and do not play one on tv...YMMV of course. All I know after 50 plus years of playing out is that there are alot of ways to get where you are going no matter where you are. Good luck, the tone is in there.

[Quentin Hickey]

Those old bandits with the scorpion speaker in them sound sick!!

[Jan Viljoen]

Thanks blokes, for a nice discussion.

I found this link to Peavey steel amps.

http://peavey.com/media/pdf/steelguitar/31years.pdf


Please let me know what the boffins think about a Ampeg GVT 52 valve amp.

Is it any good for pedal steel?

Let the games begin!

[John Boogerd]

You can fatten your tone up by picking 12 frets up from where your bar is.

That is so cool. I am just finishing my first lesson using a Jackson Sho-Bud Madison. I tried it on the C6th neck and it does enrich the tone. Thankyou for that suggestion.

[John Boogerd]

You can fatten your tone up by picking 12 frets up from where your bar is.

I am trying to learn both country and Hawaiian styles on my Jackson Sho-Bud Madison (C6th & E9th). I used to love a group called the Waikikis who were active when I was in my teens (yes, a long time ago) and they had a very rich style and tone. Does anyone know what tuning they used and how they got that rich tone? I would so love to learn that.

[Stefan Robertson]

Hate to address this from a Lap Steel Guitar perspective but it has to be said. We use a tone pot which I know you likely don't have on your pedal steel.

But there are a few major things to quickly affect your tone.

1. The weight of your bar - heavier means smoother jazz
2. Amp that has good tone adjustment
3. Try a multi-effects pedal that has guitar modelled tones - boss od amazing guitar amp modelling and you can even download tones online from their site for free.
4. PRACTICE proper technique.

With that said. I like a mellow tone as opposed to a sharp tone. I like the warmth of shirley daily and Wes Montgomery.

If you want the clean tone of Tommy white a huge amount is technique. Never forget it.

[Steven Albrecht]

I am also a new steel player, I have a old pevey session 500, and an old rebuilt msa, but the tone I get seems to be warm and nice and clean, posted a clip awhile back, was encouraged by the responce, have played some backup in our last two gigs and our local musicians that have been in the crowd love the tone, mebbe I just got lucky with my equipment

[Mark Hershey]

The things I did to improve my tone as a beginner:

taking my steel to a mechanic for a tune up

getting national finger picks

plunking down the cash for a BJS bar

buying a dedicated psg amp (shobud solid state amp)

taking lessons (even a couple will help)

buying jeffrans psg techniques

buying a goodrich volume pedal

joining this forum and reading what others have to say

All of the above took my tone a step forward. There's some inexpensive options above and some expensive ones.

[Lane Gray]

Steven, that combination will get better tone than beginner's hands can produce. Pick with intent, a vigorous attack is the key

[Glenn Demichele]

All you guys are great - wonderful advice from every one of you...

[Jim Pitman]

I'm gonna stick my neck out and risk ridicule here, but I had an MSA and never could pull a decent tone out of it. I tried many pickups too. It may be the guitar.
I had the univeral on vintage body though, not the classic. The guitar was excellent mechanically, stayed in tune and returned to pitch always. However, I surmize the thick body and thick wooden neck, though beneficial for those aspects, gave it an uniteresting pure tone absent of nice harmonics.
Since that era, MSA has made alot of changes, and for all I know, now, has a decent toned guitar.
I've had several brands since that smoke my old MSA Universal in both the tone and sustain department.
I also should add the caveat that It may have had the tone some people like, it just wasn't what I was after.

[Tom Gorr]

Mike McCorry....

I have had my Vegas 400 set up in my music room for steel for years. .. and gig with the PV Bandit...a transtube chrome stripe with the Sheffield Speaker.... its lighter and fits better in the vehicle.

I took the Bandit into my music room a few days ago and compared it to the Vegas and it's no contest. .. the Bandit blows the Vegas out of the water in every way. What a fantastic steel amp.

[Donny Hinson]

I'd put amp as equal to technique and ahead of effects.
Get a veteran player to sit behind your student model...

I agree totally. So many players (amateur and experienced, alike) think they're pretty adept at getting the best tone out of their rig. When a real pro sits down at your rig, spends 15 seconds tweaking the knobs, and then gets a better tone than you've ever imagined, it's a humbling experience. You don't need a "special" or "particular" guitar, amp, pedal or cords. (Pros are known to use most any brand.) So, don't obsess too much over your tone or gear. Get something decent, and then move on to the most important aspect...the playing aspect. Because if you can't play well, with good timing, intonation, and dynamics, the best tone in the world won't get you anywhere.

People hire players, they don't hire "tones".

[Ian Rae]

When I taught trombone my boss heard me playing on a student's instrument and said "Wow, how do you get that sound on a cheap horn?". I had to say, only with much exertion. I could not have done it for three hours or filled a concert hall with it.

In order to remain motivated we need to love the sound we make regardless of others (who as Donny suggests may not be that bothered anyway). The best instrument and setup for you is the one that gets your sound with the least effort.

[Charlie McDonald]

I mentioned a buffer for a pot pedal to a sound engineer friend; he recommended a tube preamp,
and I've been happy with the Art Tube pre to add some warmth to the sound.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?N= ... yes&sts=pi

There is a treble bias in steels with the pickup location; picking away from that up the neck remains the best thing for me.

[Donny Hinson]

I am sure all have a different opinion....but Id use a monster rock or jazz guitar cord any day before a George L....seems to me George L are so bright because they are either really good at transmitting highs or really poor at transmitting lows...

Tom, that is my impression, as well. IMHO, many steels need fullness and body, and low-cap cords won't do squat to help in that department.