The Steel Guitar Forum

Posted: **6 Feb 2014 7:43 am**

I've been playing for a year and a half now. My band had never seen a PSG before I started to play. My dad is a veteran player of 40+ years so I thought I'd better give it a whirl.
If I showed up to the gig now without it they would probably make me head back home to get it. We do a lot of country but also hit every genre from Metallica to Ray Price. I think people love seeing this "Foreign" instrument play different types of music. One of my favorite tunes we do is "Drive" by the cars. I'd love to see what Paul Franklin would do to a song like that.
I do believe the cost is an issue with the instrument. It seems like the even bigger issue with kids is instant gratification and lack of passion. I had a guitar student tell me after just a few lessons "This is a lot of work!" I replied, if it's "Work" for you then you shouldn't be here. Go back and play you "Rock Band" video game...

Posted: **6 Feb 2014 10:47 am**

lost of good replies - i think things come and go at their own pace. all it takes is 1 young guy playing a steel in a hot band that catches the young generation and they are off - look at what, say Jerry Garcia did - how many picked it up solely on his influence.
I have played mandolin for 25 years, you never saw very many young mandolin players when i started - along comes a hip young kid name Chris Theile and now there is an explosion in the instrument. the festivals are now bulging with really smoking young mando players - same with banjo, uke, and probably lots of other nearly extinct instruments. there is one young youtube guy that has solely just about revived uke just from youtube exposure alone - playing pop tunes. you can already see a renaissance in lap steel right now.

the problem is:
-it is a very confusing instrument to a beginner (it took me full 2 days to tune/adjust my Marlen student model when i got it - thank god for Winstons few pages at the back of the book!)
-it takes years of dedication to play even intermediately & kids these days want instant gratification, not 5+ years of woodsheding
- there is nowhere to even see one to know if you want to play it - hearing it on record / tv is not enough
- they are expensive relative to other instruments - you really have to have a burning desire to invest in one & most young people are in and out of 1000 different hobbies
- the affordable older models on the used market are usually in bad shape and can discourage even a dedicated student (i know from experience)
- it doesnt have a lead role much anymore and why invest all that money and time and drag it around just to do some kickoffs and pads.

and...drumroll
nobody looks like they are having any fun playing it - their heads buried and a intense concentrated look on their faces. think about it, young people want to have fun and be engaged with the crowd, not in the back all night with the top of their head showing.

Posted: **7 Feb 2014 2:14 pm**

Instead of all the stupid ideas about "guitar tables" and "string organs" and all, let's stop calling them "pedal steel guitars" completely and rename them "sex magnets". I sense a great renaissance... a course last time that happened it was just a gas bubble, don't touch that dial.

Posted: **7 Feb 2014 2:18 pm**

Last night Garth Brooks performed on Jay Leno's farewell show........

It wasn't until about 7/8s of the way thro' Garths' second/last song that I was able to locate the steel guitarist.

Only his white hat was visible throughout the show. He was hiding behind that fiddle player and overwhelmed by the percussionist.

Who might he have been?

Posted: **7 Feb 2014 2:31 pm**

Its too bad someone like Justin Beiber wouldnt start playing, than we would have a heck of alot of youth on it.

Posted: **7 Feb 2014 2:37 pm**

A GREAT idea!

Why not dangle the cherry in front of all the steel guitar manufacturers and see if any one will jump to sponsor this little jet-setter, possibly with a BLACK Rittenbury, Zum, or whatever.

THAT would attract the younger generation just as Robert Randolph has done.

Hey, why not have Robert introduce the steel to Beiber and then present it as a gift along with a prepaid package of lessons............?

Posted: **7 Feb 2014 3:33 pm**

his steel should have inlaid pot leaves in the finish and eggs for fretmarkers.

Posted: **7 Feb 2014 4:10 pm**

chris, most every time I read your posts I burst out laughing. And your serious posts have great information. Don't ever change!

Posted: **7 Feb 2014 7:50 pm**

Dale Rivard wrote:chris, most every time I read your posts I burst out laughing. And your serious posts have great information. Don't ever change!

here here!

Posted: **7 Feb 2014 7:52 pm**

Ray Montee wrote:A GREAT idea!

Why not dangle the cherry in front of all the steel guitar manufacturers and see if any one will jump to sponsor this little jet-setter, possibly with a BLACK Rittenbury, Zum, or whatever.

THAT would attract the younger generation just as Robert Randolph has done.

Hey, why not have Robert introduce the steel to Beiber and then present it as a gift along with a prepaid package of lessons............?

Lessons? Youre asking alot of todays performers! He probably doesnt even sing his own songs!

Posted: **8 Feb 2014 3:08 am**

the bigger problem facing this subject as well as many other things, the younger generations are not connected to the music as we were.

They hardly go out and listen to live music , they have many many other things that they do now as compared to what we did at a similar age.

We had a simple choice, go watch 3 or 4 TV channels with our parents or go down the street and play guitars with a friend or two... or go down to a local dive and watch a band play live. maybe the only live band in town...

I am assuming everyone knows that's not the case anymore !

Just look around as we drive around, 100's upon 100's of kids are playing Soccer, Softball etc...at locations well lit up into the night.

Our entire society has changed and in many cases just over the last 10 years. Now add in the musical artists of young ages that influence their generation...You Tube, Twitter, FB..email, facetime, text...it appears they are now out of time for the day to seek another interest...

Kids who have a musical interest, sure, their parents buy them a Squire guitar and amp for $200 and they start lessons the same day..they can play Three Blind Mice before they get home.

Or they can buy a Pedal Steel Guitar and play Country music which is frowned upon...and wait maybe 6 months before they can even tune it...

what was the question again ?

Posted: **8 Feb 2014 6:30 am**

...the younger generations are not connected to the music as we were.

And I'm sure the Frank Sinatra fans said that about Elvis, and I know the Elvis fans said that about the Beatles, and just a few moment ago the Beatles fans here were deriding the stupid kids of today. When you see an entire generation of kids locked into their iPods from 7am to midnight seven days a week, it's pretty clear that that they're as hooked as anyone else has ever been. I don't know how that plays out when the permanent hearing loss starts showing up in their 20's, but for now there seems to be a record number of kids for whom "Music is my life!"

Their sincerity is a bit frightening, and they look to be set up for a great disappointment when they find out there's a whole lot more of them than there are enough paying jobs to support themselves, and even if they're as totally addled by their music as the boomers were, it's a tiny pie this time around. But it would be a pretty hard argument to back up that the state of affairs isn't a direct result of us boomers refusing to grow up and give up control of the radio playlists and the television microscope that new musicians are put under, to make sure that they're playing recycled Boomer tunes and not anything new. When I hear anymore that kids aren't into it, how many of THESE music festivals have you attended?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fe ... _festivals

I was going to list them but there's well over one hundred. Kids today DO NOT get their music from television and radio! Those formats have been ruined by boomers, so they get their music from each other. There's a mental construct that shows up constantly on this forum, it can be summarized as:

I have absolutely no idea what's going on.
Therefore, nothing's going on.

Are you going to Bonaroo, Wanee, Mountain Jam, Lollapalooza, Monolith, Grand Point, or Comstock or Decibel or 10,00 Lakes or Coachella? Or SXSX, or... aw, never mind.

Posted: **8 Feb 2014 8:10 am**

In todays language steel is not cool. Notice what you see on TV. The lead player is playing (?) a guitar and can jump all over the stage.

And all that is needed is the first two strings and a bunch of sound effects to make the audience think they are playing something. IMO. Tracy

Posted: **8 Feb 2014 9:01 am**

Tony Prior wrote:the bigger problem facing this subject as well as many other things, the younger generations are not connected to the music as we were.

meaning,

They have many other things which are occupying time, we had many fewer things and those of us that heard the Steel connected...we wanted to hear more. Those of us that were trying to learn to play, any Instrument, we went home and spent as much awake time as possible trying to advance. We didn't text, skype,facebook, tweet, email, Youtube, watch 200 channels with nothing on, make microwave dinners in between dinners, watch re-runs of Pawn Stars which plays 24 hr/s a day etc...

Many are not connected to the music as many of us were, they are connected to many many things which in many cases happen to be connected to their friends at the same time.

Posted: **12 Feb 2014 1:53 pm**

After playing 5 string banjo, mandolin, Dobro, guitar (acoustic and electric), and non-pedal steel for over 40 years, I finally bought a pedal steel a couple of months ago. It is a Stage One, and I really like it. Why a Stage One? It got great reviews from many people and Doug Earnest was very easy to converse with. Why did it take so long to finally buy one. Cost. But I finally had enough extra money to afford an entry level guitar. Frankly, except in the mid 1970s, in Phoenix there are no music stores that have on display, let alone sell pedal steel guitars. So, while a kid might want to play one, Guitar Center or just about any other music store in the state doesn't have anything a person can try. Hard to justify for the kid or the parents to shell out at least $1000 on something they can't touch.

Most stores would rather have on display instruments that will have quick turnover. It's not the kids' fault. It's not the stores' fault. It's economics.

Posted: **13 Feb 2014 2:04 am**

James Bolek wrote:. Hard to justify for the kid or the parents to shell out at least $1000 on something they can't touch.

.

And that right there is big. How many of us I would ask, how many of our parents purchased our first Pedal Steel and amp for us at a crazy cost ? I would assume not many and I would also assume that most of us found our own money somehow to make the first purchase. This is not to say that in some homes parents did buy the first set-up...thats probably the exception rather than the rule...

Todays parents of youth are paying $500 every other year for a new IPhone and a monthly fee to keep it turned on...Ask the youth which they would rather have....the new IPhone or a Maverick...even if they wanted a Maverick !

Posted: **13 Feb 2014 11:41 am**

I was watching Sheryl Crow and her band on the TV program "Artists Den" last night and lo and behold: there was a S-10 Sho-Bud on the stage and a guy that actually spent most of the concert playing it! Come to find out it was Joshua Grange, a Forum member.

Look, I know Sheryl's audience is not composed of Imagine Dragons or Justin Timberlake fans but... neither is it exclusively aging steel guitar fans and classic country lovers. So he/she's exposing the steel guitar to another generation (maybe just not the millennials). Joshua seems like a young enough guy so maybe his example will help the "kids" find and take up the pedal steel.

Oh, and I found this cool article about Josh and Sheryl's Band written by FoBro Chris LeDrew.

Posted: **13 Feb 2014 3:04 pm**

Many are not connected to the music as many of us were, they are connected to many many things which in many cases happen to be connected to their friends at the same time.

There are those who listen to music, and those who just wanna hear it. And, there are those who want to be connected, really connected, with other people, and those who just want to send silly-meaningless messages back and forth.. Once upon a time, people were addicts to being "connected" via CB radio. Thankfully, that fad faded away in less than 10 years. One thing I hope...with every fiber of my being...is that the same fate eventually befalls I-Phones and other personal connectivity devices.

Posted: **15 Feb 2014 2:27 am**

question:

Why isn't PSG catching on with the youth?

response:

Why the youth ?

My take , still, is that today that's the wrong target audience ...

I wasn't 12 when I started playing...more like 22...

I am certain we could each state that we have played with and talked with countless musicians, younger,middle age and older who told us they loved Steel and wished they could play one . My response was always the same, "why didn't you " ?

Posted: **15 Feb 2014 2:36 am**

Donny Hinson wrote:
Once upon a time, people were addicts to being "connected" via CB radio. Thankfully, that fad faded away in less than 10 years. One thing I hope...with every fiber of my being...is that the same fate eventually befalls I-Phones and other personal connectivity devices.

But Donny, that fad did not go away...it's now bigger than ever imagined. Whats changed is the CB radio now fits in your pocket, doesn't need a 12 vdc power supply, a 6 foot antenna and a standing wave ratio meter to adjust it every day !

Posted: **15 Feb 2014 1:28 pm**

I think country music producers have done just as much to get rid of the steel guitar. If you hear it on record, it is sliding from one chord to another as background sounds. There are some bands that feature the steel, but lately on record simplistic banjo playing seems to have taken over. And 80s rock guitar licks. Hard to like something if you can't hear it, see it, or play with it in a store.

But a couple of years back Gotye was playing on Saturday Night Live. His song "Eyes Wide Open" had a steel guitar. I think it was a pedal steel from the brief glimpses. It was ambient, but a prominent part of the song. Sort of like David Gilmour in Pink Floyd.

Posted: **16 Feb 2014 12:21 pm**

I have a couple of extra twists on this after reading the last 4 pages...

First I more or less agree with most of the points:
1. can be expensive - my 1st one was 1750. but then so have some of my guitars been that much or more.
2. heavy (ish) - no lie.
3. tedious set-up and tuning - not so much for me
4. hard to learn - anything worth learning requires practice - and a lot of it.
5. phasing out due to cultural and production pressures - temporary, and due to going for the easy money..
6. Stigma of being a 'hard country' instrument, redneck thang, old-fashioned, not hip, etc.

I am also an accordion player, and the same discussion is going on there as well. Same exact Questions and almost the same points.

Here is a couple of thoughts to consider as well:

1. I am glad the field is limited and not all want to get on board (no pun intended). Those who truly love the sound for what ever the reason - are going to seek it out and learn it - just like I & you did, and just like some of the young ones on this forum. They will probably stick with it because they love it. It is a process of natural selection, determination, and challenge.

That is why we do it. We just love it. We may not be 'country' ourselves, but end up playing it because it is so beautiful. Same is true for jazz. incredible instrument for that. It will continue to attract new players, but maybe for different reasons.

2. Do you really want the PSG to be like any other guitar down at the old music store? Do you really want to be flooded with tons of bad to poor players?

3. It seems to me there are more new makers building really high quality instruments - which is a very good thing.

The 'new normal' is upon us and we have to keep up - with whatever that means. The PSG is so adaptable, it is capable of anything. The Jazz Guitar is another great example. We all still play standards, and aspire to be good jazz players. We also play many other styles of music as called upon.

We all start at different levels, but due to places like this, and friendly encouragement - we can help keep the new players interested.

So. I say - let's keep working on the country, western, switng & jazz standards, inventing new approaches to playing popular music with a "new" instrument. And find ways to broaden the visibility and applicability of this great instrument to many other genres...

Posted: **17 Feb 2014 2:33 pm**

I sense a return of the pedal-steel. It slowly seems to becoming of the contemporary folk/jazz/blues/rock sound. Musics are now blending and mixing. I have been playing bluegrass banjo for the past 25 years. Bluegrass, which is very improvisational, is filled with young players that have amazing instrumental skills.

I really never enjoyed the classic country sound. I loved improvisation and working in country-rock or folk-rock situations. I did not learn standard licks and my dyslexia was an impediment to learning from tablature. I just found my pentatonic scales and chord positions and started playing. I created my own licks and style and attempted to be tasteful. It worked because I played pedal-steel for a living from 1987 to 1990 and did not starve.

As I listen to the alternative folk/rock/jazz/ music that is presented on CBC Radio2 in Canada, I hear a lot of pedal steel. Younger groups like Del Barber are incorporating steel. I have been a music writer/researcher/scholar for many years. I can confidently argue that there is a trend. There is hard evidence that the instrument is returning in younger hands.

I intend to gig again with the steel, likely with a jug band and/or a contemporary folk ensemble. I am 70 years old with a lot of playing experience. I contend that a lot of music can be made with a three pedal, one lever set-up. That has been my bread and butter and it can be taken so many directions. Young players of today tend to be free-thinkers with the ability to take the basic E9 3x1 set-up and run with it.

Posted: **17 Feb 2014 3:31 pm**

Tony Prior wrote:
Donny Hinson wrote:
Once upon a time, people were addicts to being "connected" via CB radio. Thankfully, that fad faded away in less than 10 years. One thing I hope...with every fiber of my being...is that the same fate eventually befalls I-Phones and other personal connectivity devices.

But Donny, that fad did not go away...it's now bigger than ever imagined. Whats changed is the CB radio now fits in your pocket, doesn't need a 12 vdc power supply, a 6 foot antenna and a standing wave ratio meter to adjust it every day !
You're right Tony, the same banal chatter that inhabited CB is now the banal chatter that inhabits Twitter. However, we did have a couple of decades in between where people actually talked to each other!

***

My guage for the popularity of pedal steel will always be the big music-chain catalogs, like Guitar Center, Music 123, Musician's Friend, etc.. When you finally see a half-dozen of them in one of those catalogs, we will know we have "arrived". I must admit I don't pay a lot of attention to the alt/young people's music issue, as only a tiny percentage of those groups likely have and feature pedal steel. I do see the occasional poster who tries to tell us it's more popular than we realize...but we don't hear about it because we don't travel in those circles. However, I can't seriously buy into that argument. To me, listing (what?) 25-50 bands is not evidence, but lack of evidence, especially when you consider the (probably) thousands of these bands that are out there. Speaking for myself, I don't see mere existence of a few dozen groups with pedal steel as an indicator of real popularity of the instrument among younger people. But...I'd be happy to see anyone prove me wrong! (It's a simple numbers game.)

Posted: **17 Feb 2014 4:40 pm**

A lot of the music that is being produced is going under the radar simply because it is not part of popular culture. It is not heard on commercial radio and is not part of commercial television. Youtube is the new radio. It is hard to quantify what is happening musically regionally because mainstream media seems to have little interest.

Music genres are blending and I have a hard time defining the country music of today. I am not sure what it is. However, I saw a pedal-steel player at a jazz festival this past year. I have seen pedal-steel rocker Robert Randolph working with Eric Clapton. Sarah Jory has played steel with Van Morrison. One of the best known Canadian singer-songwriters, Fred Eaglesmith, is not a country musician but he regularly sells over 100,000 CDs a year and has used a young steel-player over the years.

I agree it is hard to convince people that the pedal-steel is coming back through younger more diversified people. My ongoing scholarly observations of the music scene tell me that it is so. However, at this point, I feel that few people really believe it. Time will tell.

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