The Steel Guitar Forum

I'm no amp builder, but I'd sure like to see how these are built without a circuit, tag, or turret board.

Nobody wants to touch on that, huh.

Ford Cole wrote:Has anyone tried the light weight Eminence 15" with the LW?

I am using the 4ohm 15" lightweight Eminence that I got from Kevin Hatton. Yeah, they work together, very well. Installed the Eminence in a Telonics cabinet - nice set up, easy to carry and sounds great.

Todd Brown wrote:

I'm no amp builder, but I'd sure like to see how these are built without a circuit, tag, or turret board.

Nobody wants to touch on that, huh.

I might comment on it if I knew what a tag or turret board were.

Well, Dan, there are plenty of more qualified folks on this forum to answer you on this, but here you go.

tag board



populated tag board




turret board




populated turret board



Turret boards are used often in Fender style DIY builds, and also used by several "hand built" non PCB amp builders today. They are close to the Fender type fiber eyelet boards below.



Apparently Mr. Bradbury has found the magic. God bless him. I'm just curious as to whats holding all that "magic" in there? What's it mounted to? Every site on the Little Walter, the builder's and the dealers sites, repeat the same statement. "We use only true point to point wiring methods and employ no circuit, tag, or turret boards". Does he use fiber waxed eyelet boards like vintage Fender amps? That's the only thing else I know of. If so, why not just state that? I'm not trying to beat him down here. Just trying understand this often repeated statement on his amps. Maybe I can save up my lunch money and be a proud owner one day.

[quote="Steve Lipsey"]What Tim said....that is what I meant by each note giving you chills down your spine...I've played a lot of amps, but for me the boutiques (for me, Matchless and Milkman Guitar Amp for guitar, Milkman Steel Amp for steel, and from peoples' comments, Little Walter also) give you a feeling of being physically connected to the notes that come out in a way that the others just don't.

Hard to describe....sort of like what people say about playing an Emmons vs. other steels. It isn't like you are sending a signal to an amp, it is like the amp is feeling what you want and doing it...very responsive to your touch.

And I play in bands where steel is featured, not just "part of the mix", and often in clubs where we aren't mic'ed...when I switched from an MB-200 to a Milkman, I didn't say anything, but people (both band and audience) noticed the difference and commented on it (we have a bunch of fans that come to our gigs).

Yes, it is nice to be able to afford a boutique...but like anyone, I get to decide what parts of my life get the money and what parts don't (my car is 15 years old and I'm not ever getting a new one) - I can't have everything, but I feel that buying an amp that feels this good is a big part of the pleasure I get in life - and I expect that I'll be able to sell it when I am done for close enough to what I paid for it that it isn't even really "spending" money.

Plus, I gig a lot, and it is 100% reliable....no vintage quirks happening, and it actually sideslipped off the hand cart I was wheeling it on and CARTWHEELED down a ramp last week....and played just fine afterward. Amazing....

I'm not saying everyone should run out and buy a boutique.....but I am saying that people who do aren't crazy....it isn't about a tiny quantitative difference in tone, it is about a completely different relationship with your sound.[/quote]Hello Folks, I was playing my steel guitar through a cheep guitar amp, and it didn’t sound right. I am in the process of purchasing a new Amp, and I was leaning towards the Peavey Nashville112, but now after reading your posts, I’m not so sure. I’m a new steel player, and I didn’t realize there were different amps designed for the steel guitar. Has anyone used the Peavey Nashville112, and what do you think of it?
Thanks for any help, and I look forward to taking part in Discussions on the steel guitar in the forum. I have a six string, and a eight string lap steel, and they are enjoyable to play.

True point-to-point is done using buss wire and the components' own leads to connect to sockets, pots, jacks etc. look inside an old RCA PA head for a good example of this.

Advantage is that there are no parallel runs... Wiring is more chaotic, resulting in less cross-coupling of signals. That's why Ken Fischer's amps were called Trainwreck... looked like hell inside. Pretty well thought-of today.

This is what point to point looks like in a hi-fi amp - its hard not to make it a rats nest. Old McIntosh amps looked like this - however, there was a lot more going on than in an Octal Fender Bassman circuit such as the LW.

One thing that is important with P2P is ground architecture - its a lot easier to get a clean ground, in my opinion, with a turret or tag board. However, some folks think amps sound a bit better without wire. The first amp I ever built was done point to point in a Hammond chassis - I pity the tech who ever has to work on that one! Turret and tag boards are aesthetically and functionally pleasing from a technical point of view.

Been reading about the Little Walter for some time now and have decided the I do not want to try one out. Why? I would probably have to have one . I saved for several years to put my Revelation rig together, and to change right now.....

But what has been said about boutique amps IMO is correct. Not mass produced but put together by hand with loving care with better parts produce better sound. Even if no one notices, I do. the only thing I know about amps and electronics is what I hear out the front, I have heard players get great tone for many years though many different amps. It is personal choice about what pleases you, the player. For right now it is what have. If I ever get a chance to try a LW then I might just have one like the big boys . Good thread BTW.

An example of Fender style point to point wiring back in the very early years. Appears to have been rebuilt.

What is the point, to all the point to point. If it is concerning the LITTLE WALTER the ones who play them and the ones who will play them in the future, do it for the tone and the simplicity of the amp, and could really care less about how its wired. Just my opinion.

Gary

Gary Skelton wrote:What is the point, to all the point to point. If it is concerning the LITTLE WALTER the ones who play them and the ones who will play them in the future, do it for the tone and the simplicity of the amp, and could really care less about how its wired. Just my opinion.

Gary

I think it's because this is the "Electronics" forum and these are exactly the kinds of things that are of interest to us electronics types. We're under-the-hood kind of folks.

B

Well, Gary, I think they're are showing these to answer my questions. I was not aware of these kinds of wiring schemes(no eyelet boards). A little before my time, maybe. Thanks for the pics guys.

How can you speak for potential customers, concerning what they care about? Some people do like to know these things. I'd like to know what I'm getting. Especially for a $4000 head! Why do you seem offended by it? Would you blow a gasket if someone did show the inside of a LW?

No, of course not, are you a serious customer, or just curious electronics type.

Well I don't know. That's alot of lunch money I gotta save.

There are some far more expensive amps out there. Here's a pic of the insides of a Two-Rock. Some of these heads are as high as $8000.






B

how about $50,000 for a Dumble?

Like this???

These old Hiwatts are real pretty inside:

A nice Aiken:

The Hiwatts sound as good as the insides look. I`ve been lookin at a PA 100 head for multi-instrument purposes....

this is the inside of a Milkman:




I build onto US made turret boards. I use US made cloth covered wire, US made capacitors, US made resistors (vintage), US made transformers, US made metal chassis... you get the idea

i think i saw that blue blob in a movie.

Tim, that picture of the point to point wiring reminds of my days building Heathkits, including a Heathkit guitar amp and Heathkit ham radio gear.

Whichever way a builder chooses to do it is the builder's perrogative. If it works, and the Little Walter's obviously work well, then there is really no issue.

That's beautiful work Tim. Dig those Jupiters too!

B

That truly is a piece of art. Only another tech can really appreciate the shear quality and workmanship in one of your Milkman amps. Gents, if your looking for quality there is not going to be any better then this. No doubt, worth every penny Mr. Marcus charges for this superior work of art.