The Steel Guitar Forum

to DOUG .....

I just got home from a senior center gig that we've done for years . It is the only one I do where I play all but 4-5 songs on guitar instead of the usual 4-5 on steel in a 4 hr setting .

I decided to leave all the effects hooked to my 6 stringer and went with just the reverb in my NV 112 for the steel . MAN ! ..... even with me being the one playing my StageOne what a sound !

If people would just listen &/or try your guitars ,threads like this one would not exist (IMHO). Everyone loves the tone .... and I can't see a reason for me to upgrade . The other steeler ,on opposite months, has an old ShoBud and everyone tries to compare both guitars sound. Miss my old ShoBuds from 30 yrs ago less & less everytime I get to play my guitar out !

Thanks again Doug and I'll have my StageOne in ALBANY ,NY on April 2nd at the JAM SESSION if anyone would like to try it .

whew... now that the dust has settled, maybe I can ask some questions that this thread inspired...
such as:
"How many new steels are actually sold per year?" (nationally/internationally?) anybody know?
How many annual used steel sales/trades might there be?
What percent of these might "The Steel Guitar Forum" generate?

At risk of inspiring another dust up, I can't help but wonder if the sales (at least at the student end) might not be boosted by appealling to the youth culture (like Leo Fender did). "Easy Play" Taylor Swift, Lady Gaga, Rihanna, (whoever) instructional materials to try and "hook in the young'uns" (like the Hawaiian lap steel marketing in the last century)
The economics of scale and complexity of the PSG might make such an endeavour financially unviable, but I can't help wondering ... maybe if I won a really big Powerball lottery, I could throw a few million at it, just to see ...
(and yeah,some PSG entusiasts might not WANT a populist boom like I envision, but that's just human nature... we all like to have "our thing" that we don't necessarily have to share with the rest of the world ... I'm sure somebody has written a PHD thesis on this...)
oops, I hope I just didn't start another flaming diatribe thread...

that and how many licks to the center of a "Tootsie-Pop" ..... are questions the world may never get answered

OK - you want an affordable, professional-quality pedal steel for $800 + shipping? Only 3-pedal + 3-KneeLever, but that's more than adequate to learn on and you can still get BMI parts brand new, shouldn't be too tough to get this one 3+4 or even 3/4 + 5 if you wanted to in time:

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=202883

I have a BMI S-10 3+4 - IMO, they're fully pro-quality machines. I don't specifically advocate anybody buy this guitar, I don't have first-hand info on what kind of shape it's in - but if it's in good condition, it's a great deal (again, IMO). I paid in that neighborhood for mine about 6 years ago, used it with the Rustlanders when I was playing with them. BMI continues to make a fine steel guitar, I've played a few over the last several years.

Again - I'm not trying to tell anybody what to do. But at a certain point, it comes down to this (editorial 'you'): Do you want to become a pedal steel guitar player or a pedal steel guitar owner? If you're really serious about playing, you need to stop wasting time worrying about the minutiae of various makes of guitar and get one so you can start learning to play. It's not a trivial learning curve. I also tend to think that - if a guitar like this is in good shape - if someone outgrows it, they will not lose any money if they decide to sell it down the road.

My opinions, all, YMMV and all that.

Kent I read your post and am replying. I have not read any others. I understand your frustration on pricing. However, if you factor exactly what is in a pedal steel and how many hours it takes to make the parts and guitars, it is simple to see the price, when they are not made in Japan. The steel is born and raised in the US though.

The great thing about the steel guitar is there is a family here. Start a section posting what you need and how much you can spend and surely someone out there has what you are looking for. Give it a chance.

We are trying to do our part. Have not had a price increase since, 2008 and we are just eating the inflation to try and help our fellow steel community. We are also coming out with an economy model in the near future to try and help as well. Might as well be able to get a steel without all the bells and whistles just like a car right.

Good luck and keep saving. The steel needs you.

I doubt that the pedal steel makers are motivated by greed. My perception is that they make these steels because they love the instrument. Turning a profit is healthy and a natural part of commerce. The wages you earn at your job are a profit to you. Pedal steels are a specialty item and not found in every household in America so how many can they sell per year? Have you priced violins or other instruments lately? Find someone who is no longer playing and wants to unload something very heavy. In this economy you should be able to find a high quality steel at a bargain price.

I build seats but have helped build pedal steel guitars too.

Mike at Mullin is correcet - no one in the steel guitar business is making lots of profit.

First off - everybody says I want a standard steel guutar - and then the start to telling you what THEIR standard means - these things are built on a one at a time basis because there are seldom if every 2 alike - if they do make 2 alike there certainly will not be 3.

I had a guy come up to me at a recent convention and say why can't you build a seat for under $100 like I got back in 1970 - it was late in the day and I just paused and said, "what was the price of gas in 1970" - " the price of steel and aluminum, for example"

For example, rivets have trippled in price in the past 3 years - aluminum had not gone up that much but rivets have, for some reason. Just had 2 announcements last week that 2 of my suppliers are going up 15% the end of this month. steelseats has had one small increase in over 5 years - I know of at least 3 steel guitar builders that have not gone up 15% in the past 3 years for sure.

One of the builders at that convention I mentioned above walked up after our conversation and asked me if he heard that right ???? and I said yes - his answer was "JUST BUILD ONE." and I agree.

By the way that guy came back that same day and bought a $360 seat - cash.

AND I started Road Cases just guess how many dollars wroth of just rivets is in one of those for a pedal steel guitar - then there is the special extrusion and special laminate -

Thanks for reading my little opinion

Joe Naylor
www.steelseat.com
plus Road Cases and other stuff

Joe, I found your explanation not only compelling, but downright riveting.

that is and Jim if I rivet you -- you will be right there -- because I make sure all my rivets hold things in place -

So let me know where you want to be riveted and the crowds can come see you play those wonderful songs you play



and thanks I needed that

Joe

My advice is to look at the long term picture regarding the price of any musical instrument. Do your research and buy once, but buy wisely. I did with the two guitars I have and I'm happy as a clam with both. Over time the cost of good instruments and equipment are worth their weight in gold in overall savings. You won't want to continually trade up, which ultimately can cost a small fortune. Of course, "GAS" is obviously considerably more eqpensive (no pun intended).

Jim Cohen wrote:Joe, I found your explanation not only compelling, but downright riveting.

Jim, I think we punny people could "Cohen-side" in playing..If you know what I mean..

Thanks to everyone who answered here. I have learned a whole lot on this thread..

The first time I went to St. Louis and saw all the super players,and looked at all the booths, I was becoming hooked..By the following year, I knew I wanted to be part of this wonderful organization on PSG players..There have been some stumbles along the way, but I'm glad now that I have waited until now to get started as I am a bit more informed..

God Bless Ya'll

never mind....

Db

Kent,

Having started only 1 year ago I can tell you the guys on this forum outrival members on any other forum I've been a member of - ANYWHERE!

You seem to have started off with a bumpy start with the guys here, but they will still help you out as I think the all realize that you were misinformed and maybe just jumped the gun with your statements.

Without the help on this forum I would still be trying to find stuff out on my own.

What's amazing with this forum as opposed to others is that you get multiple answers very quickly when you post a question. Sometimes numerous emails and/or pms as well offering more help in the future.

The bonus, is there are PRO players on this forum and others who have dedicated themeselves to this instrument and are VERY knowledgeable.

I think you bailed yourself out in time. Don't piss these guys off - they're always more than willing to help you out if you need answers.

Don't forget - they all started out where the rest of us have and for some reason it seems PSG players don't forget the struggle.

Take care, and happy steelin

Keith

Hi Again Kent,

You surely have stimulated some discussion!

Having recently done some work on a steel I have the greatest respect for those who build them for a living - or as a hobby that pays - or just as a hobby. These things are not easy to make!

The forum members will give you "straight up" advice, with a minimum of BS. Think of the Steel Guitar Forum as the pre-eminent "BS-free zone" on the Internet!

A good instrument isn't cheap...but there are also genuine bargains that crop up regularly in the for sale section. A great steel, professionally-built, can be had without breaking the bank. Sometimes it takes a little patience. (I know all about patience...I want patience and I want it now!)

If you buy a decent instrument you will only pay for it once. If you buy a cheap piece of junk (think eBay and shudder), you'll keep right on paying for the whole time you own it - and when you sell it you'll probably take a bath on it too.

When I am in doubt as to the quality versus price issue, I always remember this: "Buying quality is like buying oats; if you want good oats then you have to pay what the market asks. If you'll settle for the oats after they've passed through the horse, well that's cheaper!"

Another thing to keep in mind is once you buy a thing you have automatically acquired the problem of how do you get rid of it when you no longer need it. That thought has prevented me buying quite a few things, actually.

Good luck in your journey with the steel-guitar. We're never finished learning this instrument. If we were, this forum wouldn't exist! The fact that it does exist - and thrives - indicates this is a pretty healthy community. We're here for each other, whether raw beginners or seasoned professionals. We're here for you - if you want us.