The Steel Guitar Forum

Steel Guitarists of this forum,

How thoughtfully each of you have applied the suggested repartees that are undeniably fitting, to quell an overbearing facetious comment made, that caught me off guard. Thanks to all who have given of their time to suggest how they would have responded.

Believe it or not, Bill, we all love ya here.

Keep the iconic articles coming.

Orthogonal - Dave, I want to know if you use that word in everyday conversation pertaining to steel guitar...

Bill: After that last post you are going to have to add the word GRACIOUS to your profile !!

Regards, Paul

Barry - yes, I use the word ORTHOGONAL in everyday conversation pertaining to ANYTHING for which it's relevant and appropriate.

Actually, in this case, I think it's the most descriptive and accurate word for what I was trying to describe. I generally prefer a simpler, more well-known word or phrase, but they didn't quite get to what I was going for or seemed awkward to me. I could have said, 'not in line', 'out of line', 'out of alignment', 'not in alignment', 'not aligned', 'perpendicular', or whatever. But to me, the idea of 'orthogonal interests' best (and most pithily) describes the situation I sometimes find myself in.

Dave,

My guess would be that you are no stranger to purposefully sallying into reference departments of every dimension, gathering copious quantities of hard to find technological information, to satisfy your apparent insatiable appetite for knowledge. I only wish that I had become a man to match your ambitions.

Bill, I think you're being too sensitive to the remark. A professional player has no problem learning a few steel parts from a CD in a week's time. The request to do so, coming from a singer or bandleader, is not at all unusual.

I only play a few gigs each a month. Even at my level of semi-professionalism, leaders routinely send CDs or email MP3 files of songs to learn for an upcoming gig. A week's notice is considered plenty, even for a whole set of new material.

What's the big deal? Isn't this just "business as usual" in the life of a hired musician?

PS - do people really not know what "orthogonal" means? I, for one, refuse to artificially limit my vocabulary to the 2,000 words used on reality television.

b0b,

I think part of living to the fullest would require having the ability to recognize immediately what is meant by expressions that do not register as of the norm. Having the ability to elucidate word meanings in a flash, reduces the chances of misinterpreting subtle intentions, that may resurface at some point in the future. Intentions to not serve the best interests of whomever. Of course, the wish for such behavior to never come to visit, goes without having to repeat the words.

In my neck of the woods this language a lot of you guys here use,[I think MOST of it is just to impress old illiterate country boys like me. ] SORRY to disappoint you but your bovine excrementitious falls WAY short of your expections. It does NOT impress near as many as you think. YOU BETCHA,DYK?BC.

PS - do people really not know what "orthogonal" means?

Yes b0b, I admit I had never heard the word before Dave mentioned it, (and I'm 67, if that matters.) Maybe we should take a poll to see how many other illiterati there are (or aren't) here on the Forum who are unfamiliar with 'orthogonal' besides me, or maybe it's time for me to consider a paradigm adjustment just to keep up here.

JOIN THE STEEL GUITAR FORUM--You may not learn much about steel guitar, but you might become a master of the English language. You will definitely increase your vocabulary. I learned a new word--condescending. I feel some of you have made remarks that are of that nature. I do not believe the author of this topic intentially started this to be "MY ENGLISH IS BETTER THAN YOUR ENGlISH". I thought this forum was "MY STEEL GUITAR PLAYING IS BETTER THAN YOUR STEEL GUITAR PLAYING". If Buddy E. and John H. had exchanged recording sessions for NITE LIFE and LOOK AT US, would we still think that they were such impressionable solos? How different would they be? As for me, it doesn't matter, I can't play either one!

Joe,

When communication lines drop to the ground, all is lost. You immediately revert back to the dark ages. Be thankful for those who work tirelessly to keep the communicative lines open.

Bill Hankey wrote:Joe,

When communication lines drop to the ground, all is lost. You immediately revert back to the dark ages. Be thankful for those who work tirelessly to keep the communicative lines open.

What are you trying to say?
Do you use wireless communications--Blackberry? Do you text? Are you on face book? Do you even have a cell phone? What makes you think you have to use high vocabulary words to communicate on a simple steel guitar forum?

Joe,

You've provided readers with what I was beginning to explain. No need to explain further! Your pivoting off into something quite different than what I had in mind pushes reality to the back of the classroom.
I've commenced to think you are holding out on me. I see much evidence of a wise man concealing an education, possibly to place me in a corner of the classroom. Just kidding Joe, but you are very wise to ways of surviving a match of wits.

b0b wrote:do people really not know what "orthogonal" means? I, for one, refuse to artificially limit my vocabulary to the 2,000 words used on reality television.

Well OK, now we know b0b has the language skills. But he is apparently lacking in math skills, as everyone knows there is really only 327 words used in reality television.

326 if you don't count "Snookie", which I'm not even sure is a word. Maybe it's twisted slang jargon for describing a farm animal that eats slop. I dunno.

- Just funning with ya b0b, no offense intended....

Well, today I learned that the past tense of "play" isn't "plaid" (unless you were a bagpipe player, I suppose).

For those who still don't understand: the cross bars are orthogonal to the pull rods.

I still think that some here use these seventy five cent words to try to impress or show that they are intellectually superior to the average joe,If you are REALLY trying to communicate and exchange ideas about music and the steel guitar,then why do you make these looney tunes posts that after reading them over and over they are STILL nothing but absurd babble that makes NO sense at all.The only logical conclusion is the person that does this is either deliberately being an a-****.or affected with a neurosis that makes them crave attention. why CAN'T it be kept simple where even a dummy like me can understand what you are talking about YOU BETCHA,DYK?BC.

b0b wrote:I only play a few gigs each a month. Even at my level of semi-professionalism, leaders routinely send CDs or email MP3 files of songs to learn for an upcoming gig. A week's notice is considered plenty, even for a whole set of new material.

What's the big deal? Isn't this just "business as usual" in the life of a hired musician?

Perhaps CDs or mp3s are not what Bill needs...maybe sheet music is. You do read standard notation, right Bill? If so, go over to the "Music" section of the forum and tell me what that big band tune is that I'm trying to identify.

Actually, did she give you any material at all? That's probably the most important question of all...what did she give you, if anything? Are you actually supposed to be learning something right now??! Time is running out!!

Duane,

"I don't read enough to hurt my playing". Who would be the first to contest those words spoken by the great CHESTER ATKINS? He iterated those words that he told to a member of the Springfield Symphony Orchestra during an earlier telephone conversation. What does it take to curb an enthusiastic individual? When he performed at STANLEY PARK in Westfield, Ma., with the S.S.O. he left no doubts in the minds of the membership that his reliance upon "reading" was purely secondary. His musicianship and creativity may never be equalled in the years of the coming centuries. Duane, I've explained at the start of these interesting combinations of diatribes, that I AM NOT a member of her band. I also explained that she and her husband were keyboard oriented, and it wouldn't have mattered if I suddenly became another masterful steel player overnight. Her intentions were quite obvious. She was remiss for one fleeting moment, by egging me on, when I was willing to tolerate an evening with just keyboard accompaniment. Note: I'm reminded of a few related issues involving the lack of limelighting (ex. guitarist, Paul Yandel) among steel guitarists who have become worthy musicians, deserving much more attention than has been placed upon their performances.

Perhaps she knew the short limits of her talents, and felt intimidated by, or tried to draw some type of kinship, from you.
I've always maintained one attitude with strangers. Show me the $$$, I'll get 'er done !

With musician friends, I would enjoy, jamm and create, that which could not be sold commercially, but made us happy.
Rick

I'm afraid that I do read enough to hurt my playing.

Seriously, I don't understand why people brag about their musical illiteracy. It's not something that I would advertise to potential employers.

b0b,

I seriously doubt that professional musicians would hasten to be tempted to "brag" about their own illiteracy. On the other hand, employers are more than just curious, but never demanding more proof than listening to the finished product. A good example would be (if true) Ralph Mooney's inability to name individual chords on the steel. I've always found that hard to accept as factual. But, there you have a situation where some club manager would appear quite silly to those who are familiar with Ralph's prowess on the pedal steel. Give me a break!

Bill Hankey wrote:Duane,

"I don't read enough to hurt my playing". Who would be the first to contest those words spoken by the great CHESTER ATKINS? He iterated those words that he told to a member of the Springfield Symphony Orchestra during an earlier telephone conversation. What does it take to curb an enthusiastic individual? When he performed at STANLEY PARK in Westfield, Ma., with the S.S.O. he left no doubts in the minds of the membership that his reliance upon "reading" was purely secondary. His musicianship and creativity may never be equalled in the years of the coming centuries.

Woah, Bill! I merely asked if you were a music reader, and if the answer was yes, my next thing to suggest would've been to ask for charts...I don't think that warranted a posthumous third-party browbeating from Chet Atkins, did it?

Since you bring that up, I'm not going to doubt that Chet's methodology worked for him, and he could pretty much do whatever he wanted to. But as b0b pointed out, you can do a lot more when you can. See you could tell this lady "I need charts", and if someone has to write them up for a steel player, they're usually easy. They may note out a few bars here or there for something specific, but they mostly just tell you the chords and when to take leads. They're a slick way to go!

Yeah, I know...this lady isn't going to write anything up, but hey, it's a comback is it not?

Bill Hankey wrote:Duane, I've explained at the start of these interesting combinations of diatribes, that I AM NOT a member of her band. I also explained that she and her husband were keyboard oriented, and it wouldn't have mattered if I suddenly became another masterful steel player overnight. Her intentions were quite obvious. She was remiss for one fleeting moment, by egging me on, when I was willing to tolerate an evening with just keyboard accompaniment.

Yeah, but did she hand you any material to learn? You haven't actually said, yet.

Why do you waste time playing with these kind of folks? Find some real musicians to play with, it's the best way to become a better player.

b0b wrote:Seriously, I don't understand why people brag about their musical illiteracy. It's not something that I would advertise to potential employers.

I don't brag, but I'm up-front with a music director about my limitations: I read, but I don't sight-read — I have to work out noted-out parts — and I need number charts or time to pencil the numbers in. Better to lose a gig than get in over your head, but I haven't lost a gig yet. Usually they just want to get through it, and are just happy to have steel so they aren't as strict with you as they are the fiddle player.