The Steel Guitar Forum

Joe Casey wrote:I don't think it's a written enforced "Law" at least by any police force. Nor is it against the Law to not pay ASCAP. Anything against the Law can result in arrest.As a member of ASCAP since way back I'd say its really shooting themselves in the foot by closing down all these clubs.I never feel sorry for Club owners as they are never sorry to cheat musicians. .As far as the Jukebox in clubs goes the person who owns the Jukebox most of the time an amusement company already pays the correct fees to ASCAP BMI. Whats lost here is the bands who are working these clubs doing covers are helping the popularity of the song thus people go out and buy the original record..When someone records and covers the original the writer gets paid again same thing with Airplay..No one plays unpopular songs theres no living to be made in it.Besides its the publishing Companies who continue to make $$$$

Joe,in the U.S. we have Crimal Law that is enforced by Law Enforcement. Then we have civil laws, ie. the code of federal regulation as it applies to licensed boat captains. Those are enforced by civil action. The civil law pertaining to coprighted and intellctual materials is enforced by civil sanctions (Law Suit). Its not against the law to fail to pay ASCAP, but it is against the law to use material you dont own if you didnt pay for the right to use it. Its no different that you dropping by my home and taking my truck and using it to make money making deliveries and not giving my anything for the use of my truck. The only difference being the truck scenario is criminal and using my music without asking is civil.

Well my dad is a member of BMI and he's still waiting for some royalties.
Guess what? The money runs out long before it trickles down to the bottom half of the membership pool.
Yeah they'll CAP your AS* alright.
But still how on earth could you ever take sides with a club owner on anything?

<<Guess what? The money runs out long before it trickles down to the bottom half of the membership pool.
Yeah they'll CAP your AS* alright. >>

I'm a songwriter and publisher and member of ASCAP. My songs don't get much radio airplay, but I still get a nice check from ASCAP every year.

My high point so far is a song I co-wrote that was performed on "Hee Haw" in 1981. It was never released on record, so there were never any mechanical royalties. Those are royalties paid for sales of recorded music.

But because of ASCAP, I collected performance royalties. Those are royalties paid for performances of songs.

I'm very glad ASCAP, BMI and other other performance-rights organizations around the world exist to make sure songwriters get paid for performances of their works.

Well said, Andrew. I'm in the same boat. For example, I have a song that was featured on the US tv show "Joan of Arcadia", and I still see royalties from as far away as Israel and Romania where the show is in syndication. All the performance rights companies around the world are affiliated, and you will see your money if your works are registered and seeing play.

This thread seems to imply that if you're a songwriter who registers works that garner income, you're a proponent of performing rights collection; if you're not a songwriter, you're an opponent.

Don't forget, there is also what's called "neighbouring rights", which compensates musicians for their parts on songs that receive airplay and other usage. If you've played on hits, you should look into it. I know for instance that a back-up singer on Bon Jovi's albums claimed and received a healthy sum for his work on "Living on a Prayer" and other hits.

Congratulations, Chris!

Keep up the good work. I'm glad you're getting paid for it.

That's right, Chris-there's a commercial still running that I did the original 60 second track for at least ten years ago. It's been cut, edited, rerecorded many times, but as long as there's any of my part bass part used, I get paid residuals. I figure if my part is good enough to be reused like this, it's good enough to get paid for.

Guess what? The money runs out long before it trickles down to the bottom half of the membership pool.
Yeah they'll CAP your AS* alright.

The payment system has been very good to me over the years. I played a little dinky part along with dozens of other musicians on a couple commercials that went national. If I needed money for a couple years I would just head over to the Union and pick up my monthly residual/performance checks. $50 to $200 came in every month for a while. Then one of the spots got picked up for the Olympics and I got paid again. The singer did way better and that writers did WAY better. I am basicly just a working musician getting by from month to month and those checks saved my ass a bunch of times.

Leslie Erlich Says
"I never cared much for the American version of capitalism, but that's another argument altogether."
____ In an earlier post he said that musicians should be paid for performing and not songwriting. That's great coming from a Canadian. In Canada musicians get performance royalties when their playing is heard on the radio. Musicians also get subsidized under canadian content laws.
Here in the good ole USA , intellectual property rights are being eroded by corporate lobbyists.
The songwriters are losing ground every year. Because of radio consolidation, playlists have shrunk, diminishing royalties to writers. Because of piracy, CD sales are in the toilet.
As a steel player who has had significant success as a songwriter let me try to point out a few facts.
Songwriter Royalties, set by Congress, on CD sales is basically 9 cents per album. In other words, if a song is on a million selling album (which are few and far between) 90000. is generated. This amount is divided among the co writers and publishers proportionately. A million selling song written by three people and shared with three publishers would give 15000 to each writer. Not much of a living.
If the song is lucky enough to get on the radio then they may get royalties from airplay. It's only fair considering radio corporations make billions from advertising. Would people listen if not for music
The rest of the royalty money comes from licensing fees to TV , Movies, bars, and eating establishments above a certain size. All of these licensee's use songwriters intellectual creations to make money on their products. Shouldn't the writer be protected.
A few years back the restaurant lobby won an exclusion from paying royalties to songwriters. As a result, hundreds of millions of dollars are left in the table in the rest of the industrialized world, that does recognize the value of intellectual creation.They won't pay us because we don't pay them. It's called reciprocal neighboring rights.

Bruce Bouton wrote: In Canada musicians get performance royalties when their playing is heard on the radio. Musicians also get subsidized under canadian content laws.

That's true, but the dividend is very small and you need to be a member of the AFM or ACTRA to apply for and receive it. Either union can do the legwork and paperwork for it. Unless you're on a hit, it's pennies a play - if that. I'm not aware of the Canadian content subsidy, but there is a rule in Canada that radio has to play 1/3 Canadian content, which I guess increases overall royalty counts.

I thought musicians could collect neighboring rights in the USA as well. If not, I'm surprised Canada managed to put this in place before the USA.

How about songs in the public domain. Now you made me curious. Can you play songs in the public domain? How lond does it take a song to be in the public domain?

Songs in the public domain can be played with no royalties.

Robert Harper wrote:How lond does it take a song to be in the public domain?

as I understand it:
Everything written before the invention of Mickey Mouse will always be in the public domain.
Everything copyrighted after Mickey Mouse will never be in the public domain.
.. but I may be wrong

EB is pretty close.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... ght_length

Google "Mickey Mouse Protection Act" and "the mouse that ate the public domain" for more information.

Slightly offtopic-check out "Team Rodent" by Carl Hiassen.