The Steel Guitar Forum

I have to agree with everything Bobby Burns said. I'm sorry I pissed all you guys off so much. I'm glad I started a discussion about proper technique and the delicate balance any teacher of technique must aspire to, but I am genuinely sorry that I irritated all you guys, especially the people who knew Jeff Newman personally.

I do honestly believe that "proper technique" is harder to define than is commonly assumed, but it certainly is not unimportant or unnecessary. Sorry to Herb Steiner too, who I already irritated needlessly weeks ago making wisecracks about the beauty of black mica. I just got diagnosed with cancer, after 190 days of waiting for a definitive diagnosis, so it is probable that my sense of humor has been a little too barbed lately. Sorry guys; no insults intended, just trying to start a philosophical discussion about flexible teaching. I'll really try to tone it down in the future...

I have had very few pedal steel students over the years; it is not very common around here. I spend all of my time teaching guitar, bass, etc. Mostly kids, maybe one-third adults. Almost all of the kids I see have been damaged by public school -- a system designed by dishonest and ignorant politicians and funded by very reluctant taxpayers that is crammed down the throats of extremely reluctant students by overloaded and under-supported teachers. When the teachers can't handle an unusual or imaginative kid, they give him/her a label like ADHD and then prescribe drugs. The politicians won't let the teachers tell the truth about American history or current events or evolution or the biology of sex or drugs. So many of the idealistic teachers quit and leave the kids in the care of the teachers who just do it for the benefits and the pension plan. So I tell people "Beware of Teachers" almost every day. It's one of the ways that I support my students, and they appreciate the irony, coming from a teacher. Didn't realize it would push everybody's buttons so much...

Mr. Burns, you have put it into words so well. kudos---------------------

It wasn't that important anyways.
(my point, that is)

Barry, you were posting as I was, sorry 'bout that. I hope the best for you in your battle with cancer. that helps explain the "twist" in the intended humor. Wish you well, brother, my heart goes out to you.

Barry, I hope everything goes well with your cancer treatment.
I'm, not really pissed off. I didn't think you literally meant "Beware of Teachers!" But I see so many lazy students who refuse to even try to do things that don't come easy, that I felt it necessary to be a little defensive.
I also think that a lot of you guys have made very good points about technique and making things work for different students. I think a lot of things that are hard to explain to a student, off the top of your head, have been addressed here in easy to understand explanations that I will most likely be using as a reference in the future.
I too do lessons with other instruments way more that steel. I really only do steel lessons, because I have folks who want to get started, and have no one else close by they can turn to. I was lucky to have Herby in my neighborhood when I was a kid. There is no one like Herby around here today. I suppose I was spoiled and just didn't realize it.

Barry, also as the ex-husband of a public school teacher, I understand your attitude on teachers. I don't want to get anyone started on that. I know some very good ones, who really care about the kids. But I know some......Well, thats a discussion for another forum.

Barry
You needn't apologize to me, you haven't irritated me at all in any of your threads, even the one about the mica guitars... I simply answered you in a tongue-in-cheek, disingenuous way, but didn't feel put out in the least.

As to teaching, I have my philosophy about what and how to teach and learn, and I simply stated my opinions and why I have them.

The only times I've been truly irritated on the Forum were those occasions when, as a member of the Steel Guitar Hall of Fame Committee, my honesty, intelligence, and personal integrity were challenged because someone's hero hadn't been inducted yet. And you are definitely not among those few unfortunate individuals.

Peace, bro. And good luck with your health situation. I wish you the best.

I've had one teacher who lasted for four lessons when I first got this Pedal Steel Guitar. He charged $45 an hour and never gave me any hint that there was a certain right hand technique that many people found advantageous. Instead he just remarked on the peculiarity of my right hand grip.

Then one day I found this tape called right-hand alpha and that was what I had been looking for in a teacher, someone who could come out and say "look, many if not most folks hold their right hand like this and pick like this". Its kind of like with a good piano teacher--there's a reason why they harp on keeping the wrists up etc.


Anyway, at the fourth lesson, I asked my teacher to show me a few licks that I could use interchangeably in different tunes. He said "there are no licks for Pedal Steel Guitar, its a relatively new instrument, and there haven't been any licks developed for it yet"

It was then I realized I was being played for a sucker. I was struck dumb that someone could actually say that to another musician. Then I remembered from my long experience that lots of people think that blind and stupid are one in the same.

This guy is a long time member of this forum and sells his merchandise here, so I won't mention his name.

Well, stupid is as stupid does, and I didn't go back for a fifth lesson. Thanks for letting me vent--thought you'd all get a good laugh out of that.

Wow, Phil, that is an unfortunate story for sure. You could have been turned off the instrument altogether. Glad to see you managed to find Jeff and get back on track.

Phil Halton wrote: This guy is a long time member of this forum and sells his merchandise here, so I won't mention his name.

Isn't that why you should mention his name?

Barry,

I don't know you at all, but am very sorry to hear about your cancer diagnosis. Never forget, people battle and beat cancer every day, so you're not alone. The mind is a wonderful thing, and what you believe to be true is very important. I've seen how the mind can help to heal the body, so always believe that you'll beat it. We'll all keep you in our thoughts. Please keep everyone posted on how you're doing.

-Jeff

[quote="Earnest Bovine"][quote="Phil Halton"]
This guy is a long time member of this forum and sells his merchandise here, so I won't mention his name.
[/quote] Isn't that why you should mention his name?[/quote]

No thanks ernest, I've stepped in enough steaming piles to know when to step around em'

I wish the forum had an intelligent agent that would alert me when threads of interest to me pop up! Just found this one, very interesting.

I've taught E9 for many years, and Herb Steiner and I are on the same page in virtually all respects regarding technique, playing the melody, etc.

I'm actually, like Herb, a "hardass" on technique. I'm even "hard-assier": for all new students, they're REQUIRED to buy and practice with Jeff Newman's DVD "Right Hand Alpha", it's not just a strong recommendation. Jeff explains palm blocking technique so thoroughly, concisely, and does it over and over, tirelessly, just hit "rewind" and he goes through it all again. It's an incredible help and bargain for beginners.

But I also always tell students, "I'm showing you techniques that I know to work well for myself and many, many top players. HOWEVER: after a long spell of trying it our way, if it's not working for you at all, then we'll work together to try to find some other way that DOES work for you."

I don't promise them that some alternate and, usually, inferior way of playing will get them to the same high level they're hearing from the pro's. I do point out where their bad technique is likely to hold them back, and why that is. Smart students hear that and heed the warnings.

But frankly few students will ever reach that level, and for them playing decently and comfortably, even if not technically perfect, is just fine, and I have few arguments with that.

One other thing I tell every new student: in the end, I hope to help you find a whole new creative way to approach and play the pedal steel. I would love to help launch the next "Jimi Hendrix of pedal steel" (already in that category, in my view, are Joaquin Murphy, Jimmy Day, Buddy Emmons, Paul Franklin Jr., and many more). We need innovators, fresh thinking. So if playing with no picks, or a Stevens bar, or without shoes, or any other non-standard twist allows you to find a unique voice with the pedal steel, then I whole-heartedly endorse that!

Tone wise, should the hat be worn with the brim level and close to the eyebrows or in more of a relaxed jaunty attitude tilted back on the head? Further, is it ever appropriate to wear a straw hat to a serious gig

I don't post on the forum much, but thank you to whomever started this thread. It's been quite interesting. I don't have the experience or knowledge to interject, but I've learned a lot from reading.

One thing I want to say is that I've been lucky to have many steelers help me as a beginning player. All of them have been helpful, but they all have different ways of doing things. It can get confusing. As a blind person, I had never seen the PSG played. My instructor was intelligent enough to understand my impairment. He tried to teach me proper technique, but in order for me to find the frets, we had to adjust. I started some bad habits, but those bad habits, and improper technique, are what got me started playing. Now, two years into learning, proper technique has become much, much more important. So for me as a beginner, who has been helped by numerous players, it works both ways. Technique will make me a better player, but the "whatever works" is what got me going. I hope, those of you who teach, will keep that in mind.

erb, just want to thank you for your explinations of arm position, etc. It's just what I've been looking for, and the light in my little head came on. I think that will solve my blocking problem, or should I say lack of blocking problem. Thank you, and one of these days, I'm going to get down there for a lesson.

One more thing, as some of you mentioned, Joe Wright can hold a conversation and other type things while playing. He and Jimmy Day, are just two of the guys that helped me believe a blind person could play this thing. If they don't always have to "look" at what they are doing, then neither do I. Joe rocks. I don't care who you are.

Now I'm going back to lurking. Thanks again, Herb.

Phil, there are soem bad teachers out there who have NO business teaching anyone. I had a similar experience when I first started. If your teacher cannot pick block AND palm block get another teacher. If your teacher isn't teaching you theory AND technique get another teacher.

Hey, Jana! Glad to see you on here. I missed talking to you and hubby last time at the Dallas show, but I saw you both lurking around.

Hey Herb:

I always enjoy our talks at the show. I'm looking forward to 2009. I thought you might like to know that I went home last night, sat down at my PSG, and followed your instruction on the arms down by my side. Wow! What a difference. It set my right hand up perfectly.

I've been complaining to everyone, for sometime now, that something wasn't right. I just wasn't comfortable playing. I just couldn't pin point what exactly was wrong, and wasn't describing the problem in a way that anyone could help. I just knew something was wrong, and I was really frustrated about it. It was my arm position. After reading your description of gravity and arm position, it just makes sense now.

I owe you a big hug at the show next year. Now, how to keep that elbow from popping back out there? Duct tape? Old habits are hard to break. Does the magazine thing really work?

Sorry for the hi-jack you guys, but, for me, this is, as Oprah would say, an "Ah Ha" moment, and I'm a teeny bit excited about it.

Jana, and everyone else with extended elbows...

The way to do it is simply relaxation of the shoulders and elbows. Force nothing, don't think about what your arms are doing, let gravity work before you even touch the steel.

Next, hold your hands over the steel as if you're about to clap your hands, or showing the size of a fish you just caught. The palms should be facing each other in a very natural position, with the width of your torso separating them. Instead of clapping, lower your hands without twisting your wrists until the backs of your palms touch the strings; the hands should still be in the same position, palms facing each other.

Now simply turn your hands so that the thumbs are now roughly parallel to each other. You are in the correct position and your arms should still be totally relaxed.

You are now in correct arm position. Magazines are not necessary, nor are belts or duct tape.

Herb, That's about as nice a description as I have heard. You spelled it out so nicely.

Wow, Herb's is a most clear description of getting into a correct tension-free position as I've ever heard! Thanks, steve t

...that was what I had been looking for in a teacher, someone who could come out and say "look, many if not most folks hold their right hand like this and pick like this".

But then, you get the player who has seen one guy (who may be a good player) use a non-popular technique, and you're slammed when you tell him..."I wouldn't recommend that". Instantly, you're peppered with..."Well, so-and-so does it, and he's famous!" I always figured that when someone asks a question, they want an answer or an opinion. Some players, however, seem to want nothing but validation.

Regarding the comments of Herb Steiner, this might be a bit off subject here?, but I would like to take this opportunity to say this. I think Herb is one of the most intelligent people to ever grace this Forum, and his vast knowledge is more than worth it's weight in gold! If you read his posts and take advantage of what he's telling you, you'll most definately learn a lot. This guy has more knowledge about steel guitar in one finger than most of us have in our whole body! He is indeed a Prince of a man in many ways, and I think most will concur, it is truly an honor to know him.

I wish you long life Herb, and I truly hope no one ever discourages you from posting here. You are indeed a great asset to this community.

i concur Danny
we are blessed by having Herb here w: us on the Fo'
he's got a good sense of humor to boot

Check this out....

Not to compare Jeff Newman's right hand technique with JW's hand technique, No way, No Chance.....Miss you Jeff.

Now.....Check this out

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DC9RijH9E5M