The Steel Guitar Forum

I have been reading threads about this so many times I can just about predict what the responses will be. What is the "Sho-Bud" sound for crying out loud. In my short three year span of learning to play these things I've had three of em and they all sounded different. I've got an S10 at Coops now and I bet a weeks pay it won't sound like it did before or like any of the rest of them that I have had or like either one of my friends Buds. Do you think if you had a really good player,I mean like Paul,Tommy,E,and now I know you get my drift,guys that have a sound they hear in their head and make it happen with what ever equipment they think it takes to get that sound,that you could actually tell the difference if you couldn't watch them play? If it was that unique and special I really believe you would be seeing these guitars on the stage much more than you do. Personally I am very fortunate to have as a very close and dear friend,Mike Randolph,who is an extremely accomplished player now playing a Zum and he is not going back to sho-bud. He does admit he likes to see mine set up on stage because of course they look so fine and nostalgic,but his tone is exactly what he wants just as it was when he played his LDG or PRO 111 plus it works. Much better!!! Happy Trails,I hope someday,someone figures this out. Mike C.

I think there seems to be a bit of a misunderstanding here about the Sho~Bud tone argument. Ricky, of course, is right in that the pickup does not make the guitar - no way. There are too many other good things at play in an old Sho~Bud to make it sound the way it sounds, like the changer, big maple body, etc. I do think that what b0b and others are talking about concerning the Sho~Bud pickup is that it is what unites many of these guitars tone-wise. Therefore, it stands to reason that the nature of this pickup design lends itself to a uniform, recognizable sound. But of course it's not the one sole reason for the great Sho~Bud sound. Lloyd Green has a 710 in his LDG, and it stills sounds like a Sho~Bud. In fact, Sho~Bud made humbuckers for some Professionals and Pro models. That's my two cents anyway, even though I don't think what I said was totally clear.

Mike, obviously a lot of players are afraid to rely on a Sho~Bud when they're traveling, especially if it has original parts, etc. But you'd be surprised how many 'Buds are still on stages all over the world. They do have a recognizable sound, and it's a relief from the modern guitars which (to me) all sound pretty much the same. I've got an MCI S10 that I use on gigs, and while it sounds great, it doesn't have the character of my Professional. It's just lighter and has a more narrow margin of error in the mechanics. Most of the guys out with the stars have their Sho~buds at home.

C'mon... you guys all know that it's the inlay...

For once on this forum , I really have to agree with everybody .....The tone of ANY pedal steel has to do with all of the above ....The fit, the finish, the pickup, the wood , the player, the room , the materials used , the age of the wood, and all the other variables that make a pedal steel what it is ... I believe that a large part of the differences in tone have to do with the pickup....This is a big part in the reason why I played a Sierra and would hope that Mitsuo adds a pickup change system in his newer Excel's ... The pickup is not the ONLY item that makes a particular pedal steel sound the way it does , but it does play a significant role ...
That's my story, and I'm stickin to it !! .....Jim

When I think of the Sho-Bud sound, I think think of the tone that Buddy Emmons got on Night Life or on the old Starday albums with Shot Jackson, and the Pete Drake tone or the old Buddy Charleton sound. I'm probably in the minority but I liked the way that Emmons, Green and Charleton sounded on their Sho-Buds way better than when they switched to their Emmon's or other brand of guitars.

Will any manufacturer ever come up with a logo that is as classy as the "Sho-Bud" script?

Greg

Greg Cutshaw wrote:When I think of the Sho-Bud sound, I think think of the tone that Buddy Emmons got on Night Life or on the old Starday albums with Shot Jackson, and the Pete Drake tone or the old Buddy Charleton sound. I'm probably in the minority but I liked the way that Emmons, Green and Charleton sounded on their Sho-Buds way better than when they switched to their Emmon's or other brand of guitars.

Will any manufacturer ever come up with a logo that is as classy as the "Sho-Bud" script?

Greg

Ditto Greg

Greg Cutshaw wrote:When I think of the Sho-Bud sound, I think think of the tone that Buddy Emmons got on Night Life or on the old Starday albums with Shot Jackson, and the Pete Drake tone or the old Buddy Charleton sound.

And those weren't "The Professional" which seems like the guitar that people keep referring to as a classic sho bud sound. They were mainly permanents. I have one of each and they don't sound much, if at all like each other. My 68 Miller sounds almost like a twin of the permanent, so I guess it's more of a classic sho bud sound than my 70's sho bud (to me). The Miller and the perm have coil tapped pickups at 18K and 9kish. To me it's the low K tap that helps to sound classic. They are both single finger pull release changers and they both have wood necks.

I have a true tone on the C6th neck of the professional with a coil tap at 11K and 9K. The 9K still doesn't sound like the Permanent. But it sounds 'way' more like it than the 705 that used to be in it.

So I guess I'm not sure what sho bud tone there would be that is consistent over the years of models.

The Sho-Bud pickup that I owned and liked the sound of had a resistance of 8600 ohms. When I first checked it out, I thought that perhaps it had shorted windings!

Greg

Concerning the particle board body on ShoBuds, in 1972 I bought a brand new ShoBud Professional from Dewitt Scott and I too thought it was particle board until I looked at the ends of the body where the end plate meets. I had a ShoBud catalog from the same year and it had pictures showing a step by step construction and it showed them spraying a protective coating on the underneath side. The coating is white when it is new and turns a brownish tint as it ages. You can be assured that your ShoBud is solid maple, never particle board.

Well since I started this discussion and with all the replys, maybe just maybe every one is right.

What we have here is two types of guitars, lacquer bodys, mica bodys, wood necks and aluminum necks and about as many different types of pickups as One can imagine.
Ok throw all that in the pot and stir for about 51 years. Now what do we have,, maybe what we are comparing boils down to just 2 or 3 different basic types.
OK is it a SHOBUD sound OR A EMMONS sound . Ok no two ShoBuds sound the same But they still have a shobud sound
With a whole lot of in betweens sounds from other builders . pretty much the whole thing came about out of a old chicken coop of a building. What do you think ??

I think Bigsby kick-started modern pedal steel guitars. Sho-Bud took over and nurtured the instrument through its formative years as 10-string E9 and C6 developed into their classic S10 and D10 forms. And Sho-Bud set the minimum standard for tone (meaning you gotta sound this good, or you're out of the game) and for gorgeous figured maple and lacquer looks. The Emmons push/pull then set the optimum standard for tone (meaning this is a good as it gets, eat your hearts out), reasonable weight, durable mica finish, and solid mechanics. MSA and others developed the smooth and easily altered mechanics of the modern all-pull, and the S12 universal. And many other manufacturers perfected these into the wide variety of great current pedal steels of various materials, finishes, and mechanical refinements we now have. It's all good, and gettin' better.

Here's my experience... i build my own Pedal steel guitar with home tools i made all the changer parts ect...here's my post about it http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=140239
after i had all made the parts for it i assembled the guitar to make sure that everything was working ok before putting the laquer finish, i played it for a couple of days and then i took it apart to finish the cabinet, when it was all assembled back together and tuned up...i noticed right away that the sound was different with the laquer finish , it had a more sweet mellow tone with laquer compared to a more bright hollow sound without the laquer almost like a Carter,like Bob said the pickup does change the sound of a steel, i have a BL 710 on my guitar and i find it has a better tone compare to the original pickup but that's my opinion, the original sho-bud pu had a brighter tone being it was a single coil,so i would say the pickup is about 50% of the sho-bud sound and the body about 25% and 25% for the rest like changer... fingers...ect.

but again what do i know???...i'm just a newbie

oh ... i forgot to say that my steel sound alot like a sho-bud with a BL710

Greg Cutshaw wrote:When I think of the Sho-Bud sound, I think think of the tone that Buddy Emmons got on Night Life or on the old Starday albums with Shot Jackson, and the Pete Drake tone or the old Buddy Charleton sound. Greg

Yes, but (playing styles aside), Emmons' tone was nothing like Drake's. And Charleton's was nothing like Green's, even when they were all playing "Permanents". I also think that when players switch brands, they're usually doing it to get a different sound, so what you're hearing on their new axe isn't really meant to sound like their old guitar.

tone is a combination. everything makes a difference. the pedal steel being a very sophisticated mechanical instrument there are many things that affect the tone. however, it is an electrical instrument, not acoustic and should be judged as being one. this same discussion goes on and on with electric guitars. these too are electrical instruments where the tone of the instrument is a combination of the player him(her)self, the guitar and electronics. even guitar cables have a huge impact on the tone. some cables sound muddy, some bright. it's all electricity. why hasn't anyone brought out the issue of amps? your steel won't have much of a tone (or sound) without an amp. your sho-bud will sound a whole lot different if you play it through a peavey, a standel or a twin. ever played straight into a console? well, that has to be the "truest" tone of the instrument since there isn't an amp in between the steel and the outcome. don't like the sound? i don't blame you... or maybe you do! to me everything in the chain makes the sound of an instrument. there is no single thing that makes a sho-bud sound like a sho-bud. 90% of any sound comes from the player. just my two cents...

c, segu

Mika Seger said=

90% of any sound comes from the player. just my two cents...

If you're talking individual Sound ...that makes sence but not 90% that's alittle too high for me to swallow cause when i hear a Tele and a Strat i can make the difference between the two and does'nt matter who plays it it still sound like a tele or strat...but i agree that some player sound better than others and that some tele sounds better than other tele's, i've had that question ask to me hundreds of times in my 30 years of playing professional (HOW DO YOU GET THAT SOUND?...cause i got a tele and i don't get that sound )and everytime i would say...it's my playing style first than my amps and effects settings, sometimes i do talents shows and some would come up and play my Tele and they don't sound like me but it still sound like a tele, but the question topic here is not who sounds better...it's what makes the Sho-Buds have that sound, like some said...not all Sho-Buds sounds the same but they all sounds like a Sho-Bud.

I'll be honest. It's nice to be able to have three great sounding PSGs, one Sho-Bud in your practice room, one at the studio and one that stays in the van to go to the gigs.
All three for less money than one good new PSG of any kind.