The Steel Guitar Forum

I don't listen to top 40 pop/rock/country/?? radio at all. Here's the list of what I have on my computer in the "Country" folder though:

Amy LaVere
Big Sandy & His Fly Rite Boys
Bob Wills & His Texas Playboys
Carla Bozulich (the Red-Headed Stranger cover album)
Dolly Parton (couple of her Bluegrass albums)
Gillian Welch
Hot Club of Cowtown
Iron & Wine
Jolie Holland
k.d. lang
Lyle Lovett
Nathan
Neko Case
Son Volt
Speedy West & Jimmy Bryant
The Be Good Tanyas
The Little Willies
Wilco
Willie Nelson

By the by, the Willie Nelson-Wynton Marsalis album is super hot but is filed under "Jazz"

Right now I'm listening to Stevie Wonder, Songs in the Key of Life, Sir Duke.

The golden age of music will always be what you liked and was moderately to very popular when you were 15-25 and everything since then that deviates will always be crap.

Take the pain, gents, as Twain handily hits the mark: the whole issue is nothing but one of relativity, and here's your analogy.

Any elderly family member consigned to a continuing care facility by the family might tell you this: "The old people are those who look older than me. I'll point them out."

The country (and all, for that matter) music issue is much the same. Each of us sees our prime as the benchmark.

James Cann wrote:

The golden age of music will always be what you liked and was moderately to very popular when you were 15-25 and everything since then that deviates will always be crap.

Take the pain, gents, as Twain handily hits the mark: the whole issue is nothing but one of relativity, and here's your analogy.

Any elderly family member consigned to a continuing care facility by the family might tell you this: "The old people are those who look older than me. I'll point them out."

The country (and all, for that matter) music issue is much the same. Each of us sees our prime as the benchmark.

what about those of us who have NO (or a very very short) history with country music? the music of my youth I will always love thats true...but none of it was country. Now that I have found and fallen in love with country music I have no baggage from the past. There is no nostalgia for me. no memories of a better time. There are only good songs and bad ones...really really bad ones.

Ben Jones wrote:what about those of us who have NO (or a very very short) history with country music? the music of my youth I will always love thats true...but none of it was country. Now that I have found and fallen in love with country music I have no baggage from the past. There is no nostalgia for me. no memories of a better time. There are only good songs and bad ones...really really bad ones.

This is because you are a real listener, with actual critical faculties! Top 40 anything is going to be 90% crap, country/pop/rock/whatever. Don't get me started on Mexican pop

If you're looking for a more interesting breed of country radio station, go to radioIo and check out their alt country station.

Twayn Williams wrote:

Ben Jones wrote:what about those of us who have NO (or a very very short) history with country music? the music of my youth I will always love thats true...but none of it was country. Now that I have found and fallen in love with country music I have no baggage from the past. There is no nostalgia for me. no memories of a better time. There are only good songs and bad ones...really really bad ones.

This is because you are a real listener, with actual critical faculties! Top 40 anything is going to be 90% crap, country/pop/rock/whatever. Don't get me started on Mexican pop

If you're looking for a more interesting breed of country radio station, go to radioIo and check out their alt country station.

well thats pretty much my take on it too. mainstream anything is gonna be the worst most watered down blandest pap goin regardless of genre or the decade.
just pointing out that while it may be largely about simply prefering "the music of our youth" for alot of folks here, it aint the case for ALL..and as someone who wasnt young or in my prime when I discovered old country its still unbeleivably awesome music to me without the benefit of nostalgia. new country...not so much

as for radio i got pretty much no use for it (thanks itunes)

To me..."NEW COUNTRY" is NOT "Country."
It's Rock n'Roll with a cowboy hat...and
half of them look like they slept in the
dumpster overnight!

We can blame the RECORD COMPANIES...who
kicked out all the "REAL COUNTRY" artists
for the purpose of sucking up to the "kids."
The record companies ARE and ALWAYS HAVE
BEEN people who don't know anything about
music and DON'T CARE! What they know is
"money" and they don't care what they have
to do to get it.

In my opinion...that's exactly what they did.
They "KILLED" Real Country music so they
could get their FILTHY hands on more money!

Real Country Music fans are not going to stand
"belly to butt" with thousands of howling and
hooting and hands-in-the-air swaying robots
and gyrate to rock n' roll bands in disguise
...sucking up smoke from smoke machines and
being pulverized by lazer-type lights.

Truth is...their artistS are...for the most-part
gone...so they just stay home and lament!

And...I DON'T HAVE TO LISTEN TO IT!

But...."VIVA LA STEEL GUITAR!"

Dave - it seems like geography has alot to do with what a crowd wants. ... Only during "Urban Cowboy " craze was it in the city of Phila.

Even in Boston, where I grew up, there was country music back at least into the 60s - a good country radio station and a place called The Hillbilly Ranch, featuring bluegrass and traditional country music.

I'm in State College, but you have to get out of town to see much interest in older country music - and that is mostly an older crowd. I agree that this part of PA is beautiful.

Even though it was present, country music was never the rage in Boston. I was recently there for a week, and couldn't find a pedal steel or country-oriented gig anywhere in the vicinity. There was some wonderful music - including the great Tele player Duke Levine with a very fine lap steel player, Kevin Barry - but the style was decidedly not country. But it was the best R&B band I've seen in years. Just smokin'.

You know what? It doesn't bother me a whit that there are regional differences in music. THANK YOU. I thought regional music diversity had been all but stamped out of existence, but it hasn't. The communications company moguls have been trying to homogenize everything for a long time, and I hope the squirrely blah-blahs fall flat on their butts.

Folks - not everyone likes traditional country music. In fact, some people hate it - I hear it all the time. Some people like this new country music. They will call it what they want, whether you like it or not. Jazz, blues, bluegrass, and other purists have been griping about the same thing for some time now. I think we'd be real smart to just move on and focus on what we want to do, and stop worrying about them.

My opinions, of course.

As I mentioned earlier, we played our "show" (loose term) Friday night. A packed house as usual. With this thread in mind, I walked around at break time and talked to folks as I always try to do. (Please remember that almost everyone that attends these get togethers are over 50) I asked different individuals about the "new" music. Same replies as we see here...noise, can't understand it, never listen to radio anymore, on and on. So, it's just not "old pickers" who dont like the stuff. We give away door prizes also. I try to purchase CD's by artists who are NEVER heard on the radio, consequently never "heard of". I pick CD's from Dale Watson, Bobby Flores, Heather Myles, etc to try and help bring attention to the fact that there ARE other GOOD country music artists around. Unheard of mostly, but we have gathered a few new fans for some of these folks. I love it when people come back and say "I won a Bobby Flores album last month, and when I heard it I couldn't believe how good it was. I DIDNT KNOW ANYONE WAS STILL RECORDING/PERFORMING COUNTRY MUSIC." Pretty cool, huh? I noticed last night on RFD (I tape the Saturday night shows) that they are selling all sorts of "Opry Greats" and "Old Tv Shows" by the pound. Maybe some people in command are starting to realize there IS a market for REAL country music. Thanks to all the guys who sent me emails asking about starting shows and such. I was REALLY surprized at the interest that was generated. I wish you all the best luck in continuing to try and keep this art form alive for people to enjoy, and provide a safe and good place for folks to attend. Not the crazy out of control spazzmmo feeding frenzies of "concerts" or the boozy smoke filled clubs. Thanks.......

One of the finest musicians in america doing country music today is 'Justin townes Earle' i saw him recently in london playing to a crowd of about 50

outstanding! - can pick like blind blake can sing like hank williams (the grit and all)

and his band are badass

nashville should be proud of that fella!

New Country has alot of talent.
I'm hearing more and more young players, singers & songwriters doing what they love.

Nobody questions that these guys have talent, but I think a lot of the songwriting is weak. I listened to the Opry Tuesday night and some guy sang a song about "If You're Going to Hell" It was a stupid song, but I thought Roy Acuff, Grant Turner, Bud Wendell, etc... would not have tolerated this on the stage of the Opry.

BTW: I grew up on the style of music that is promoted as country today. At that time it was the Eagles, CCR, Three Dog Night, Rod Stewart, Stevie Nicks, etc... That was on the Rock stations. The country stations played country. Johnny Cash, Porter Wagoner, The Wilburn Brothers, Glen Campbell, etc.. had shows on national network TV. You don't see ABC, NBC, or CBS carrying any of today's country artist with a show. Why....the networks don't care either way...it's the sponsers are not willing to support this, and they know their business. If Kenny Chesney would bring more money than Dancing with the Stars, he'd have a show. I could be wrong, but I don't recall a country music show on network TV after HeeHaw stopped. While HeeHaw was a tremendous success, I wonder if it created a stigma that caused TV to turn away from country music.

I watched the Penny Gilly show on RFD the other night and she sang Don't You Ever Get Tired of Hurting Me, and then said "We hope you enjoyed our version of that Ronnie Milsap classic" Come on Penny, you're old enough to know better than that.

MY TWO CENTS.
When I was growing up, the bands played everything they could from Bluegrass thru Jazz. I still like to hear a band do that. This bit of being straight old country or new country or what ever is boring to the audience at dances or shows.
I have always tried to mix the set with a wide range (as far as I could) of material.
I will agree that most of the radio material is crap so I dont listen.........I do have some "new" artist CDs that have some good stuff on them but you will not hear it on the radio.

Well this has been a mighty good thread. I kind of forgot about it so it took a lot of reading to catch up.

Many good points made. I am contemplating the value of the statement that we hold the music of our prime as a benchmark. Hmmmm. Maybe, but I listened to a lot of Jimmy Rogers, Hank Sr., Lefty, and others all who were popular before my time.

There very well may be some good music these days, but I never hear it. I don't have XM Radio. I do occasionally hear some decent music on the RFD Channel, but a lot of that is old time country.

Someone said that Willie, Ray Price, Merle wouldn't make it these days because they don't fit the mold. I believe that, especially since everyone sounds and looks that same today. What about Juliann Hough (or whatever her name is). She sounds kind of like Pam Tillis to me, but I doubt she'd have made it in the old days.

Country music is constantly evolving? Um... Evolution by definition is an improvement to a species; something that will benefit its survival. So for us to survive as musicians, we need to evolve or we'll get no work. But I don't believe the genre itself is naturally evolving; rather, it is being escorted by shrewd marketing and salespeople. The only ones evolving are the 'real' musicians who are, as Bobbe said, willing to "prostitute themselves" by playing with these “jump-around” bands.

New musicians, such as Brad Paisley, play can a lot of guitar. His playing is impressive, but where is the ‘feeling’ in his music. He can play a cascade of fast notes and cool riffs, but I am not hearing any feeling there. And poor Brad really can’t sing, but he does try. Dirks Bentley is ok. Toby is ok sometimes, but he's sort of the template for these other new "Hat Acts" coming along. To be a male country singer these days you will look like Toby, you will sing like Toby and you will wear a stupid-looking, bent up straw hat like Toby.

Garth Brooks sucks - There! I said it. I wish he'd retire for good. He's probably contributed more to the demise of country music than anyone else in history. Clint Black is tolerable, but he's only done about 3 songs that I care for.

So there you have it, Sports Fans. This has been a good thread. Thanks for all the thought-provoking ideas.


Joe

I read or heard this from an Art professor recently, that I think is relevant (paraphrased):

When people say "I may not know anything about Art, but I know what I like" what they are really saying is "I may not know anything about Art, but I like what I know."

Twayn,
thanks for the advice about the radio-station. I tuned in on the classic-country!
JJ

Very good point, Ben, and Dave M. (as usual) makes the good case. A Boston boy myself at college in the 60's, I remember both country's low profile and the Hillbilly Ranch and, as a rock musician then, could hardly stand the corniness of either (The clothes were conclusive on their own, and though many of us had boots, they were no more than winter clothing!)

Such was my prime, and I have to believe yours might be (have been?) more than you think.

Good luck!

Twayn Williams wrote:I read or heard this from an Art professor recently, that I think is relevant (paraphrased):

When people say "I may not know anything about Art, but I know what I like" what they are really saying is "I may not know anything about Art, but I like what I know."

Twayn,
Thats an interesting idea, but I am not sure I buy it and here's why.

I have heard songs that were completely beyond anything I've heard before and I liked them right off. I remember the first time I heard "Dire Straits" thinking how different their music was, but I liked it. I even kind of liked "Save a horse, Ride a Cowboy" in secret when I first heard it. Of course, I would never have admitted it. There have been others too.

So I like what I like. There's no accounting for taste I guess.

Joe

I've been thinking about the original question. Other than one or two people here we pretty much have a consensus that this music we call "new country" is not to our liking. The original post asks the question why? what is missing from it that causes us to not like it, whereas we love "classic" country. For some, it the musicianship. For others its the image, the hair the clothes etc.

FOR ME its the lyrics.
I dont mind spikey hair and riped jeans , Im an old punk...i dont mind mohawks and codpeices...whatever. I dont require perfect vocal pitch, nor great guitar playing. I dont mind distorted guitars or even smashed guitars (see above)

But those lyrics just make me cringe so hard and reach for the dial as fast as I can each and every time.

Now country music has a long tradition of great great lyrical content, but also a long tradition of some pretty cliched and hokey lyrical content as well..yet none of it seems near as bad as the "new contry". Somehow I can forgive Red Sovines "teddy Bear"...but that song about "putting a boot up sadams butt" or whatever....or another "this is MY hometown!" song....or "boot scooting" or "honkey tonk bedonkadonkin"...or "can I scratch your fleas"....I just cannot tolerate it. It goes beyond bad into condescending tripe. Im really at a loss for descriptors here.

Its all subjective I realize, I am sure some thought 'honkey tonk bedonka donk' was high poetry.
But for ME...this is the essence of what is missing. REasonably intelligent, or at least not outright moronic, lyrical content.

thanks for letting me get that off my chest.

But those lyrics just make me cringe so hard and reach for the dial as fast as I can each and every time.

Now country music has a long tradition of great great lyrical content, but also a long tradition of some pretty cliched and hokey lyrical content as well..yet none of it seems near as bad as the "new contry". Somehow I can forgive Red Sovines "teddy Bear"...but that song about "putting a boot up sadams butt" or whatever....or another "this is MY hometown!" song....or "boot scooting" or "honkey tonk bedonkadonkin"...or "can I scratch your fleas"....I just cannot tolerate it. It goes beyond bad into condescending tripe. Im really at a loss for descriptors here.

Its all subjective I realize, I am sure some thought 'honkey tonk bedonka donk' was high poetry.
But for ME...this is the essence of what is missing. REasonably intelligent, or at least not outright moronic, lyrical content.

Oh sure Ben, you talk a good game, but I'm sure you walk around the house singing "She's a hottie, She's a hottie, Got a smokin' little body" at the top of your lungs every SINGLE morning before you eat your bowl of Wheaties.

Oddly enough, I did some research online (so it's GOT to be true) and that tune is a Germs cover.








that's a joke, for anyone who a)didn't get it or b)doesn't know that the Germs are a brutally bad punk rock band.

holy cow patrick! those are the EXACT lyrics that made me jump up from my chair and run three rooms over to where the wife was "watching" the country music awards on tv , and change the channel. she never looked up from the book she was reading,and just said a soft "thanks" as i walked away.

those lyrics made me want to KILL!!!!

maybe theres something wrong with ME?

Ben Jones wrote:holy cow patrick! those are the EXACT lyrics that made me jump up from my chair and run three rooms over to where the wife was "watching" the country music awards on tv , and change the channel. she never looked up from the book she was reading,and just said a soft "thanks" as i walked away.

those lyrics made me want to KILL!!!!

maybe theres something wrong with ME?

I'm right there with ya! Of course, pop music of any sort is littered with the worst, most inane lyrics known to man. How about this Beatles classic:

Why don't we do it in the road
Why don't we do it in the road
Why don't we do it in the road
Why don't we do it in the road
No one will be watching us
Why don't we do it in the road
Why don't we do it in the road
Why don't we do it in the road
Why don't we do it in the road
Why don't we do it in the road
No one will be watching us
Why don't we do it in the road
Why don't we do it in the road
Why don't we do it in the road
Why don't we do it in the road
Why don't we do it in the road
No one will be watching us
Why don't we do it in the road

I know there are plenty of examples of really bad lyrics from other genres. I beleive Madonna rhymed "soy latte" with "double shot-ay" once....
*shudders

somehow tho on the whole, nothing can compare to new country's poets. that lyric Patrick posted for example...it just somehow magically trips every little anger/annoyance trigger in my mind and soul.

Those really ARE brutally bad lyrics. Worse that "Manimal" even.

Ben Jones wrote:somehow tho on the whole, nothing can compare to new country's poets.

Yeah, they do seem to have won first prize in god-awful...

Lyrics must be taken in the context of the music. In most cases, lyrics are not a poem and shouldn't be evaluated as such.

Sometimes, very banal lyrics work with music. I suppose YMMV if you're a new-age sensitive guy, but I am emphatically not.

[I do agree - some lyrics are just very bad. But "Why don't we do it in the road" fits for me. Sorta like Reverend Horton Heat's "Wiggle Stick" and Ronnie Dawson's "Party Time". Don't put 'em up to close scrutiny, but they work in the tune. IMHO]