The Steel Guitar Forum

Posted: **12 Jul 2008 5:25 am**

Thanks for the input regarding the tonebar. I'll stick with the 7/8 inch size for now.

I should also mention I spoke with b0b a few days ago to get recommendations on beginner level instructional material. He suggested getting the Mel Bay "Easiest Country Pedal Steel" book, and also the DVD Mel Bay - "Anyone Can Play E9 Pedal Steel Guitar"

Both are somewhat inexpensive from this website. They are very, very basic. I am pleased with the video, as it covers basic stuff, is very structured, doesn't jump around, and is well scripted. I'm very pleased with the material. It was a very good recommendation from b0b!!!

When I bought the PSG, I immediately also ordered the dvd "Learn To Play Pedal Steel Guitar" by Bruce Bouton. For the price, I was pretty disapointed, he seems to know quite a lot, but he seems to be talking off the top of his head and has to rethink several comments, or correct himself much too often. I would not recommend it for a beginner. Once I'm further along there may be some things on it that would be useful to know. But I thought it should have been much better than it was.

Chuck Snider
Roxboro, NC

Posted: **20 Jul 2008 9:03 pm**

Progress! After a long while of going through various exercises/scales, I can actually report that I can now play 3 songs: "I Can't Help Falling In Love With You", "Old Time Religion", & "Red River Valley". Even though these are simple, there's a sense of accomplishment. It's kind of amazing how the fingers start to work and go where they need to go, along with the left hand, pedals and knee levers. I played the french horn in elementary school, but that's about it as far as musical instruments go. Fellow newbies, give it time, keep up with practicing, and things will eventually start making sense!

Posted: **21 Jul 2008 8:12 pm**

I photoshopped my copedent. Anyone is welcome to print this and use it if you have the same setup.

I find it helps for me to have this out when I am playing in order to learn what pedals and levers work each string.

Posted: **22 Jul 2008 1:49 pm**

One of the psg techniques that I always have a tough time with and haven't seen much written about is vol pedal technique. I can never get that even volume/tone I hear on psg recordings. Any of you vets care to offer advice or suggest practice excersizes?

Posted: **22 Jul 2008 2:19 pm**

Gary Richardi wrote:One of the psg techniques that I always have a tough time with and haven't seen much written about is vol pedal technique. I can never get that even volume/tone I hear on psg recordings. Any of you vets care to offer advice or suggest practice excersizes?

There are two main approaches to the volume pedal:

1. Swells
2. "Sustain"

The swell technique is concerned with cutting off the attack sorta like a violin bow. You pedal down, hit the note(s) and immediately begin to bring the pedal up. While there are those who frown on this and think it's the mark of a beginner, the fact is it's an extremely powerful technique and should be mastered.

The "sustain" technique is where you have the pedal backed off 3/4 to 1/2 when you hit the note. As the sound dies out, keep raising the pedal to keep the volume even until you are at the top of the pedal's throw. Rinse, lather, repeat. The point of this techique is NOT to cut off the attack, but to stretch out how long the note sounds. It's not actually creating sustain, but the illusion of sustain is there.

The only way to get good at these techniques is practice, practice, practice! I used a volume pedal for 20yrs with 6-string before I took up steel, so it's a technique I really don't have to think about much.

Posted: **22 Jul 2008 2:25 pm**

I almost always have a vol pedal when playing 6 string but I've only very rarely used it to cut attack. On psg, I find myself thinking way too much about vol pedal. How often in a run should I try to cut note attack, just at the beginning?

Posted: **22 Jul 2008 2:33 pm**

Gary Richardi wrote:I almost always have a vol pedal when playing 6 string but I've only very rarely used it to cut attack. On psg, I find myself thinking way too much about vol pedal. How often in a run should I try to cut note attack, just at the beginning?

For the "sustain" technique, I'd recommend keeping the pedal down at the 1/2 to 3/4 position and not moving it up until you get to the end of a long note you want to sustain longer. It's like having a foot controlled compressor.

The swell technique is opposite, you quick cut the the pedal down just before you hit the note and bring it up while the note decays.

On fast runs, put the pedal at the volume you want and don't move it.

I forgot to mention the 3rd volume pedal technique: The Mistake Eraser

Posted: **22 Jul 2008 3:12 pm**

Twayn Williams wrote:
Gary Richardi wrote: I forgot to mention the 3rd volume pedal technique: The Mistake Eraser
I must've gotten an older Goodrich without that feature. My mistakes always seem to come through loud an clear. $:\$

Posted: **22 Jul 2008 3:30 pm**

after 2.5 years I am still struggling a bit with the volume pedal. every once in a while I will hit a note with the thing accidentally floored and shatter ear drums.

I was told not ot worry about it and it would eventually just happen..and for the most part it has. But its still an issue for me . sometimes I am too loud, sometimes I cannot be heard...I dont have consistency yet.

I aksed for some excercises to help with VP...didnt get much of a response. someon told me to play some bach...hehe..still trying to figure out how that would help.

The other odd thing is something Twayn mentioned. Pros will constantly tell you the VP is never to be used for swelling and to be used for sustain only...then you listen to em play and they are constantly swelling with the VP. Maybe they just dont want us noobs to overdo it, but its odd that they say it isnt used for that technique when you can clearly hear it being used that way in almost every performance and recording where a VP is used at all.

another thing i see debated is wether to have your volue pedal go all the way silent whn in the up position. some say this is bad to do. not sure why. some say its bad for the pot because you are slamming into the stopper inside the pot on the down sweep. I recently had to swap ut pots and made it so I dont go full silent at the off position. so far this is working out well for me...mistakes can still beb eased back to almost inaudible....almost

man that was long. to sum it up, the best advice Ive gotten so far was "dont worry about it, it will come naturally eventually"...that works well for me too, one less thing to woodshed on

Posted: **22 Jul 2008 4:44 pm**

Ben Jones wrote: to sum it up, the best advice Ive gotten so far was "dont worry about it, it will come naturally eventually"...that works well for me too, one less thing to woodshed on

Well, after more than 2.5 years (of course, with psg as a 2nd instrument for me) it HASN'T come "naturally", artiffically, or by incantation. I found the left pedals a lot easier to grasp!

Posted: **23 Jul 2008 7:19 am**

Gary Richardi wrote:
Ben Jones wrote: to sum it up, the best advice Ive gotten so far was "dont worry about it, it will come naturally eventually"...that works well for me too, one less thing to woodshed on
Well, after more than 2.5 years (of course, with psg as a 2nd instrument for me) it HASN'T come "naturally", artiffically, or by incantation. I found the left pedals a lot easier to grasp!

well Gary, I hear ya brother...I feel about the same way.

I did a lil searchin for ya and found this thread.
Read the whole thing, but take special notice of David Doggetts post...he suggests a couple ways to practice VP technique (including the bach stuff...where does one get the tab for that?!)
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopi ... lume+pedal

Posted: **23 Jul 2008 7:37 am**

Great thread, thanks!

Posted: **23 Jul 2008 8:35 am**

One of the things I was told about volume pedal usage was to not put it all the way in the silent position because you kinda start using it as a crutch when you mess up. I guess the thinking is that if you mess up and don't use the VP to correct it you either learn other ways of correcting it or you learn to play better without the mistakes.

Posted: **25 Jul 2008 9:48 pm**

I just started playing the PSG and it is an interesting (to say the least) axe to play. I've played bass and other instruments professionally for years. I think that makes me even more frustrated because I see how far I have to go. Bouton's DVD is a definite must have and Bobby Seymore has good stuff out there too. I just bought a Carter D-10 and playing through a Fender steel king with a Boss RV-2 and Boss DD-2 (Dave Hartleys choice of effects). Can't go wrong listening to Dave. Check him out on You Tube if you haven't heard him on his Rains. Also, the toughest thing for me is pick blocking. Any advice out there?

Posted: **26 Jul 2008 9:11 am**

Hi Robert...Under "Steel Without Pedals" Rick Alexander responded to a post (3-7-2008) about blocking. Click on the word Blocking and that will take you to his You Tube site where he goes over palm and pick blocking. I found this by doing a search "pick AND blocking"....Bob

Posted: **3 Aug 2008 7:21 am**

I wonder how many folks get a psg, try it for a bit, exclaim: "O brother, what did I get myself into?!", then quietly put it back in the case and slide it under the bed? That was me a couple of years ago. Earlier this year I decided to get back at it. My prior musical instrument training consisted of the French horn in elementary school band. Since I restarted, things are now coming together. I practice almost everyday, twice a day. I was at a point where I considered myself "stupid and beyond hope" when it came to learning the beast. I felt like I didn't have a "music gene". There will come a point where it will start to come together. Don't sell yourself short. Don't give up! Take advantage of the DVD courses available. I've been going through Mike Perlowin's (Forum member) book: "Music Theory in the Real World". But as I've been working through my frustration in the learning curve, it is challenging and fun. You can conquer/learn anything if you put your mind to it. One day, the feet, the knees, the hands, will start doing what you want them to do. For me, it took awhile. Don't give up. You'll start making those great sounds! It is a wonderful instrument.

Posted: **3 Aug 2008 9:24 am**

hi bob, i agree completely - i messed around for a short time with pedal steel when i was a kid(about 30 years ago) but i quickly went from "im going to be the hottest thing since fresh bread" to "omg! why does anyone even try to play this thing?!?" I wish there was somethng like the forum back then - if a person digs around and asks, there is so much help and resources here and so many kind people willing to help - and ya gotta keep playing even when it doesnt seem like progress is happening (it is). I still suck but it is coming along - someone mentioned getting the hang of the volume pedal in the thread - i forgot where i heard it (probably here) but practicing with the foot on the pedal but plugged straight into the amp has helped me a bunch and for blocking - repetition repetetition and after that repetition - still there are times when it seems to be really clicking and then what seems like the smallest thing can push me off into suckland (sitting slightly different - different floor etc) still it is the most fun i have had musically in my life - today i am going off to a jam session - NEWBIE POWER!!

Posted: **3 Aug 2008 11:05 am**

Good thread.
I'm discovering that I need to remind myself, to play melody, in addition to learning chords at different positions.
Its interesting to read that us beginners struggle with some of the same issues.
My next step is to get out and "jam" with some of the musicians I know.
Re usage of the volume pedal, Twanye's comments confirm what I'm discovering, it takes time.

Posted: **3 Aug 2008 1:28 pm**

Gary Bob Gimgble gave me good advise about volume pedal. "Unhook it!"
Helps a looot about the touch to the strings.
Just like with 6 string, sometimes you bang the strings, sometimes you treat them like a french car (You have to talk miss. Citroen nicely if You like to start the engine).

Sold the car, trying to figure PSG. Haven't figured it yet.

(sorry about spelling)

Posted: **3 Aug 2008 6:12 pm**

Hey Bro. Matti....Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Citroen in English actually means "lemon". Here in the U.S., a car is referred to as a lemon if it is defective right from the factory. In fact, we have many "lemon laws" on the books to help car buyers get their money back if they end up owning a lemon.
Now how about a S10 3+4 Citroen as a brand name?

Posted: **4 Aug 2008 2:10 am**

bob Ousby wrote:Hey Bro. Matti....Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Citroen in English actually means "lemon". Here in the U.S., a car is referred to as a lemon if it is defective right from the factory. In fact, we have many "lemon laws" on the books to help car buyers get their money back if they end up owning a lemon.
Now how about a S10 3+4 Citroen as a brand name?

Hi bob! I think Citroens are lemons.

Somebody might buy a used:
D-10 6+6 Citroen "The Damien"

Posted: **5 Aug 2008 2:22 am**

I would like to add this, nothing replaces a live teacher, TAB alone is not a music lesson, it is a road map to play a certain song. Unless a player can relate to what the TAB is describing it can be compared to playing by dots or numbers. Don't get me wrong, TAB is a great TOOL and I am an advocate to use TAB in the learning process but to really get value from TAB the player MUST comprehend what the TAB is describing.

We read where folks have been stumped for a few years,having a hard time getting started or a hard time moving to the next step. If tab alone is the course of action for learning criteria , then for some, this could be part of the stumbling block.

Use TAB, but as an additional resource. Try to get to a teacher even if it is once every few months. It will be worth the 1 or 2 hour drive if necessary.

my 1 cent

tp

Posted: **6 Aug 2008 3:53 am**

Bro. Tony...Good info for us newbies, well said!...Bob

Posted: **6 Aug 2008 6:26 am**

Tony is right. A teacher is a great thing to have. Unfortunately, its not easy to find a teacher for this instrument in some locations. Or maybe im just a jerk no one is willing to teach ....

Naw, I am lucky I have a good friend who is willing to show me some stuff..and have had the extreme good fortune of being able to travel and take lessons from some great players. It hasnt been easy tho finding instruction in my 'hometown' that is for sure.

Thank goodness for this place, also. you all have taught me so much and i am very grateful.

Posted: **6 Aug 2008 7:01 am**

[quote="Tony Prior"]I would like to add this, nothing replaces a live teacher, TAB alone is not a music lesson, it is a road map to play a certain song. I cannot agree more ,I had ups and downs when I first started and Im still starting.Learning from Tab and even the forum was my main avenue to learn but watching someone else play things the way you hear on an album or to learn from someone else's experience is irreplacable.It helped me to realize certain things were possible and needed great focus on psg such as volume control and intonation.I think if you can get a teacher and if your like me and live somewhere where there isnt one skype.Ben

The Steel Guitar Forum

Beginner's Corner

Does size matter...for tone bars?

Another new player from Ohio