The Steel Guitar Forum

Ken Byng wrote:

Set up the push pull properly and it will stay in tune and play as good as any guitar. This is Danny from SGN - quiet but very knowledgeable on setting up pedal steel guitars. Nice guy too.

You will see one or two cardboard ears lying on the workbench. Bobbe must have ripped them off of one or two of his customers.

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Ron Mawn who lives near me has a lighter action on his P/P pedals after tinkering around with it.

I guess I have cardboard ears !! I have listened to
lots of great sounding PSG. The push pull has its
own sound. I can't see that it is better only it's
own. Now on the other hand, Go to U Tube and listen
to Buddy Emmons play his Sierra on the song It's The
Water and you will see why he said the Sierra is
his pick for C6th. Wish my Mullen sounded like that
on the C6th side !!
By the way, all you PP players can relate to the quote in this post. The PP is like a race car. Work on them all week so you can race on Saturday night!
Just thought I would throw that out.

You have to work on anything if you don't fix it right the first time.

One of the biggest reasons I play P-P is because of the dependability. I never have any trouble, (after 43 years playing them) sure don't have to worry about such things as pull rod expantion/contraction, no cabnet drop problems (they DON'T DO IT!), these guitars are affected by temperature less than any other pull system.
Folks that have trouble with these guitars don't know how to set them up in the first place, a shame, they are missing a great guitar.
But then, as I said before, this just leaves more for me!

The Shadow

Bobbe, I knew I would get your attention !!
The average Joe doesn't have your PP knowhow.
I have seen several PP players over the years
that I wanted to loan a tuner. Then I found
out that a tuner wouldn't help. They needed
you !!
I do agree that a PP sounds great when everything
works like it should.

It's good to see a picture of Danny in his natural habitat. As we all know, HE is the brains behind SGN. Just to set the record straight, Bobbe doesn't want all of the P-P's, after all, he sold me one... but I made him an offer he could not refuse....money. Good to be back from England so I can do some needling.

Bill and Ben, you two are a couple of slick talkers! I'm proud to call 'yall friends, good ones!

Yea, I was glad to see Danny working in this picture here, he's usually moving to fast for me to even see him! He's an incredible person and better employee, (or am I the employee?)

Los Bobberoonie

The p/p system is very robust in tuning and reliability... When it's not misunderstood.

From what I've seen, the biggest mistakes people make with these guitars are a). not having enough slack for lowering, and b). not having compression springs where needed (which is basically everywhere you can get one) especially on push rods. In my opinion, a lowering push rod is the worst, most unworkable place to not have a compression spring, yet I see it all the time.

I know Bobbe knows all about that one...

Bill Moran said "I guess I have cardboard ears !! I have listened to lots of great sounding PSG. The push pull has its own sound. I can't see that it is better only it's own".

Quite right Bill. The original question was - Do They Really Sound Like A Push Pull Emmons? The answer is simply no. Opinions will differ as to what is the best sounding guitar. Some like the Fender cable sound, others the Bigsby sound, some the ShoBud, some the Emmons, some the ZB, some the Zum and so on and so on. The Sierra sound that Buddy gets on that YouTube clip, along with Gene O'Neal's Funky Monkey clip demonstrates that the Sierra definitely has its own signature tone that is different to everything else. Viva la difference!!

Duane Reece, you are so correct. (need a job?)
Ken, yes, I agree.

Los Bobbster

Ken, your right. I run my mouth too much. I was
rubbing on Bobbe a little. I will be more
carefull from now on.

BobbeSeymour wrote:Duane Reece, you are so correct. (need a job?)

Always...
Well, always taking jobs - not always correct.

Bill, you can be just as mean as you want to, as long as your heart is in the right place. (and your bill fold!)

Bobbe

If it is not build like the Emmons PP, it is not going to sound like an Emmons PP.

Cardboard ears!

This is the ideal site for those who have that affliction. The one and only Cardboard Record company. Products designed purely for those with cardboard ears. All frequencies above 10Kh have been electronically removed.
http://www.cardboardrecords.com/

Just like to get my two cents in on this thread since I'm also a diehard P/P guy. First of all, Bobbe you really have a way with words and always hit the nail on the head in my opinion. The wallet part was really funny.

I now own two guitars, the P/P D-10 and a Rains D-10. I love both guitars and actually don't have a favorite from either. What is different about me is that, I love my P/P, not for tone but how easy it plays even thought it does have great tone. The point I'm getting to is that alot of people think that a P/P is a mechanical nightmare and they are always giving trouble. I'm not a rocket scientist nor a mechanical engineer but 4 years ago when I got this P/P in, it was Emmons set up. I started at 5PM and at 10Pm, I had the guitar set up Day style, playing perfect, with a couple added pulls that I put on and haven't touched the guitar since then except to change a pull I put on. Later, I did have a rod slip but was my fault for not tightening up the aleen screw. I just can't understand where the P/Ps got the reputation of falling apart. Now I will add that I have sat down at a couple of P/Ps that played like a tank and were about to fall apart but that could have been fixed probably with a few adjustments. Several of my friends around here have played my guitar, one the late Jack Matthews, and just thought it played and sounded great but said they probably wouldn't own one. My point being, the P/P isn't for everybody but those of us who do like the P/P, we will probably be die hard fans till the day we die.

Well I Had a Lamar For 5 days. This was The One I Bought Off Of the Forum a Demo. My Buddy Glenn Dawson Had Too have It. It was All Laquer And Pearl Inlaid On the wooden Necks It Was The Most Awsome Looking Guitar I have Ever Seen.It Did not sound Like a PP It Sounded Great .Lamar Is In Florida.He builds Some Really Beautiful steels. Glenn I Hope You Dont Like It Cause I Miss It already. Randy.

I think that the salient factors, historically, with this guitar, that has attracted me, is the combined efforts of Buddy Emmons and Ron Lashley, Sr. a college physics instructor, who I believe, (and I can be corrected on this) kept tinkering with this guitar to get the sound that can be produced at the hands of a capable musician. I don't know which of these fantastic men had which ideas, (and wouldn't it be great to have the full story). I heard somewhere, (don't remember where in the recesses of my old brain), that Ron Sr., also, had gotten input from different musicians that were playing the PP Emmons after the first designs. I would love to have Buddy's input on this. I think that there was an earlier post that Buddy approached Ron to build this guitar according to his specs. Maybe someday someone will get the accurate details and put it out for the rest of us. IMO, Buddy Emmons can make any psg walk and talk and it's always a joy to see his performances on the forum. Come on guys, don't wait too long 'cause I'm getting quite "long in the tooth".

Charles Curtis - some of the answers to your questions can be found here. http://www.buddyemmons.com/TEGuitar.htm

Thank you Ken; I've been to Buddy's site many times but never saw this. Oh well, is this Forum a great place or what?

IT's all in the right hand regardless of the guitar!
For Real.. Now here we go, Let My Beatings Began!

Mike Sigler wrote:IT's all in the right hand regardless of the guitar!
For Real.. Now here we go, Let My Beatings Began!

Obvious flame bate...

Mike Sigler wrote:IT's all in the right hand regardless of the guitar!
For Real.. Now here we go, Let My Beatings Began!

Mike - the player's technique and touch is a major part of the equation in getting good tone, but it cannot be all in the right hand. In effect that is saying that it's pointless having differently constructed guitars if it's all down to the player. There will be many who will completely disagree with your statement. I think that topic has been flogged to death on other posts. You're not into sado-masochism by any chance?

BTW, I enjoyed seeing and hearing you play at Dallas in March. Great picker.

And all y'alls point is....?

Mike Sigler: You are a monster player, you also have always had nice sounding guitars, You kill me with the great little GFI!

Henry Matthews: Yes, I also have MANY other reasons why I like the P-P other than tone. Most of all the feel of the pedals, I can almost rest my foot on them without going out of tune, the pedal pushes the same tention at the end of the push as at the beginning, the brutal dependability, always in tune and not affected by temperature because of the finger stops, then there is that TONE!!!!!!!
\
Yes, many good reasons to look back to yesteryear here, but price ($$$$) isn't one of them anymore.

Bobbe

Hey Bobbe, speaking of reminiscing, remember...

Mr. Sho-Bud?



The world's only Sho-Bud push/pull. Last I heard it lived in France, but I wonder if it's still there...

I completely agree with Mr Reece about the robust nature of the PP, it's inherent stability etc. I also agree that among the biggest and most common mistakes are incorrect compression springing and lack of slack on raises thereby not allowing for full lowering. Let me humbly add that in my experience another common mis-adjustment is that of; not timing the pedal stop (at the bar) precisely to the full body contact point of a primary raise. Over time this can produce a lot of stresses on the system, and can even "notch" or crush the the finger contact point against the body.

Gouging on the backs of lowering fingers from setscrews is also something that can be prevented by careful set up.

Occasionally I will see guitars with broken string pins on the changers.

I love working on Emmons PP's!