The Steel Guitar Forum

just because an adult makes noise on a steel does not make it music

I play in a band where part of my job is to generate noise, and the audience loves it.

mixed it with a jet engine

On my last album, I used recordings that I made at the Edwards Air Force Base air show, of various fighter planes, mixed in with steel guitar.

Well Calvin, I guess its a case of those that can sell out auditoriums to screaming fans and those that can't bitch about it on the steel guitar forum.

Historically when the steel guitar was being used in country music didn't the hawian steel players get upset? I think what is happening here is some guys are upset that there beloved instrument is going off to a different venue.

Calvin wheather you like him or not there is no denying his success and I am glad that you posted so I could have the opportunity to correct you, yes RR is tallented I would say he work's very hard to get where he is today. Older adults just don't understand current music. I don't care if you like his music or not, there is no denying the attention he brought to the steel, I could not bring that much attention could you?

Calvin, All windows based computers can record. All you need to do is go to

my computer\C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Start Menu\Programs\Accessories\Entertainment

There will be an icon there and you click and record right into to your computer. Then just click "save as" and you can email the file over to Charles Tilly at ETSGA and he can post it on the site for you.If your monitor does not have a built in mic, you can plug a little 5 dollar mic in the back of the computer and fire away. I do it all the time to make my short little backing tracks for learning new songs.....James

"tone ??? what tone? he has none "

I think it is great that guy who up until a couple of years ago didn't know what a volume pedal was is now an expert on tone.

well i guess i need to go and tell a lot of fellas just how misguided i have been, you see i always thought they were carpenters, mechanics construction workers and so forth but now i understand that they are all musicans

If you are talking about the K&G construction crew on Home Improvement, (during a tool time segment) they don't count.

Tone you dislike is still tone.

tone /toʊn/
–noun
1. any sound considered with reference to its quality, pitch, strength, source, etc.: shrill tones.

2. quality or character of sound.

You may not like it,
but that doesn't make it non-existant.

Ahh yes, the OLD TONE argument re-appears as the final say in the argument.

One of Websters definitions is:

Vocal or Musical sound..

great..that tells me a lot..

So what is the definition of good tone ?

Somebody's opinion..simple.

he has good tone..according to me...

Someone else hears it differently, are they wrong ?
evidently so according to some in this thread...


"If you don't have brand X tone then you have bad tone"

Thanks for the input..

but may I ask..?

Can you actually play the dang thing that has brand X tone ?

Was it David Brinkley that wrote the book "Everyone Is Entitled To My Opinion"?

I enjoy roberts playing and his show. We need this new direction for steel guitar. My daughter introduced me to RR a couple of years ago. I put on his CD, and watched his PBS special and have been a fan ever since, and yes..i love jazz also. We just can't limit this instrument to our own taste. The greats like Buddy E, Doug J, Paul F, Reece A,thank goodness they don't just limit their playing and style, or we'd be in a hell of a fix right now.

Calvin Walley wrote:i would bet that if i revved a chain saw mixed it with a jet engine and stepped on my dogs tail a couple of times, 25% of the folks here would call it music

So record that and we'll see.

I'm just saying, like Ben, that you can temper criticism--tho why would I criticise in the first place?--and perhaps add something constructive.

Robert plays with an abandon that I like.
If I could capture that spirit I'd be doing something. It's inspirational.
I'd like to see him accepted here; the more kinds of steel playing, the better.

And what is this?:
"well i guess i need to go and tell a lot of fellas just how misguided i have been, you see i always thought they were carpenters, mechanics construction workers and so forth but now i understand that they are all musicans"

You're the real musician?
(Cynicism and other forms of irony don't always read well in a forum.)

my point to all this is: the term musician has no meaning anymore . we are now calling anyone that makes any sound whatsoever a musican
....folks it just aint so. no matter how much you would like it to be

Calvin why not start a new thread only this time have a pole and see if guy's support RR?

Also Calvin I do thank you for your response, I don't agree with you, I think some of your post's are not fact based and most the post's are on RR side.

Does he or does he not play the steel guitar?

what makes anyone as a musican?
i play the steel not very well but i don't think that makes me a musican,
just by having and audience ? being in a band ?
or is it putting in the time to learn music..wait can't be that ...because we can't even define what music is
so what do we do ? do we call a person a musican the moment he/she sits down at an instrument ?

Tony Prior wrote:Ahh yes, the OLD TONE argument re-appears as the final say in the argument.

So what is the definition of good tone ?

Somebody's opinion..simple.

he has good tone..according to me...

Someone else hears it differently, are they wrong ?
evidently so according to some in this thread...


"If you don't have brand X tone then you have bad tone"


Can you actually play the dang thing that has brand X tone ?

Ah I knew this would be good for an... achhmm.. laugh.

Too add some gasoline:

I can just play three scales on a flute, but I DO know Hubert Laws, Jean Ckaude Rampall and Joe Farrell have great flute tone.
Each hass a different tone.

I can't really play squat on a piano,
But I sure know when I got the piano sounding good,
or not in a mix I am engineering, or when listening.
Enough so that the second engineers once sent for
the lead house engineer in another studio,
to come in and see and hear my micing to capture
the best tone in THEIR Yamaha grand piano.

I know what I like, and YET
it differs in different contexts, some times radically.
No one tone should or CAN be considered the ne plus ultra of tone.

My prefered tone might be completely different
in one band, than in another. On any instrument.

So somtimes it IS RR.'s tone
and other times Big E's
and others still Tommy Morrells
and yet again Dan Tyack's.

It would appear at least half my last list
wouldn't fit Calvin's view point.

But EACH no matter HOW different is still
a variation of TONE,
and each can and should be allowed it's place in
our instruments global sonic pallet,
if we are to allow for the development of
our instrument PSG/NPS to it's fullest potential.

If we as steel supporters 'agressively limit'
what it CAN be,
then we narrow it's future
and it's prospects for onward and upward growth.

Why hold back the instruments progress,
just because the style and usage doesn't fit
YOUR personal view of what it can do.

Calvin Walley wrote:i would bet that if i revved a chain saw mixed it with a jet engine and stepped on my dogs tail a couple of times, 25% of the folks here would call it music

I ain't into cruelty to animals,

though I do live near the airport.
But I COULD sample the above,
modify it in audio software,
sequence it and make it into music,
and it could be made pleasing to some of us here.

When one sits down to try and play an instrument, they can be called
'an aspiring musician'

When they can play a song with melody,
they are a 'muscian' I leave out chords,
because a tenor sax doesn't typically chord.
In tyhe case of piano playing the melody and accompanyment would fit.

When someone can play many pieces of music,
in several styles with some skill an
'accomplished musician'.

When they can play many pieces,
in many styles, with many tonal variations,
While defining a unique personal tonal signature,
play with most anyone of any skill level
and make the other players play better,
and switch genres with alacrity,
they can be in the panthon of
"master musician"

IMHO

Calvin there are alot of guys who stole RR licks and are using them in country night clubs. I wonder if RR played a mullen if your views would differ.

But honestly Calvin back to the topic can you think of anyone latley who has brought so much attention to our guitar?

This has gotten way off topic. A.J. orinally made the statement that it seemed like RR was not welcome in the pedal steel family. Is that statement based on the comments/opinions of just a few people? What is the pedal steel family? Do you have to be a member of this Forum to be in the pedal steel family? Is there only one pedal steel family? I suppose that one could run a poll on this forum to see if he is welcome here. I doubt that he (RR) would care one way or the other. What we think on this forum will not change the way he and his band perform. What we state here are merely opinions. The fact of the matter is, he plays a pedal steel guitar in a band in front of thousands of appreciative fans. Is it music? I suspect that those thousands of fans will say yes.

there are alot of guys who stole RR licks and are using them in country night clubs. I wonder if RR played a mullen if your views would differ.

A.J. i haven't heard a true country band for years
i could care less as to what guitar he uses
and as far as the exposure goes i can't honestly say that i like this kind of exposure ...but before you jump on my butt, its my opinion ad i am intitled to it