laughin at the people who sit in for a song?

Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

Back in 1977 I got a call to fill in on bass for a band that lost it's bass player. When I got to the gig I saw why.

The band was fronted by a guy named Al, who had no more business trying to be a singer than any of us have doing brain surgery. Let's just say that he would have had to improve to have been merely terrible. The bass player simply refused to play with him and left the band.

The bass player was more honorable than the rest of the guys. The other guys in the band deliberately subverted his perfromance and made him sound worse than he was. They did things like switching keys and changing rhythms and playing the verse when the guy sang the chorus. It was the most unprofessional thing I had ever seen.

The guy fired the band at the end of the evening and asked me to put together a new band for him. I declined, but I told him that I agreed with him that the guys he hired did him wrong, and he was right to fire them.

I told him as gently as I could that I didn't think he has what it took to be a professional singer, but that was no excuse for the band to behave the way they did.

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My web site

[This message was edited by Mike Perlowin on 13 June 2006 at 10:22 AM.]

Rick Schmidt · From: Prescott AZ, USA

I'm usually the most respectful and accomodating guy I know when it come's to being the master of ceremonies at open mic nights. Even if a person is completely talentless, and devoid of any musical or entertaining qualities. Every once in awhile though, there will be somebody SO BAD and SO CLUELESS who demands to get up onstage, that it's almost impossible NOT to laugh. I'm thinking of a couple as I type who make William Hung look like Andrea Bocelli. I've had to chew on my tongue more times than I can count.

Scott Shipley · From: The Ozark Mountains

quote:
_____________________________________________
"100k people in town for Fan Fair? I guess thats as good a reason as any to make fun of one of them. I sort of doubt that figure. Rumor has it Fan fair will be a thing of the past soon."
_____________________________________________

The actual figure was between 150k and 161k, depending on whether you ask the CMA or The Tennesseean. Facts are there, check it out. And I at no point was justifying the laughter, merely trying to point out that there WERE other factors that might be relevant. As for the rumors, please do keep us informed regarding any news items you hear about before we do.
Kudos to the band leader who fired the bass player. But there IS a LITTLE difference in complaining (boisterously or not) about a fly in your soup, and willfully attempting to derail the train. The guy should have been fired.
As for musicians needing to learn, How can one truly speak knowledgeably about trench rot unless they're actually in the trenches??

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

If you have ever played those all day
"Sunday Jamboree's",
then you understand why this was rude.

This is likely to be a personal highlight of this "singer's" life.
Especially to have sung just one song
on Broadway in Nashville.

I sat in on bass and mandolin on my visit,
Even played 2 sets with Smiley!

I was treated quite well.
Except at the bluegrass jam at Station Inn,
and I let them know that they were WAY out
of the bluegrass spirt I have know from all
over the country and Europe too.

But for those that can't wing it and make it look easy...
well sometimes it IS crash and burn.
But many times, what for US the backing band, is a crash and burn,
it is a lifetime memory that
they will treasure till their dieing day.

If the tradition is a tourist can get up and do a number.
Then it is incumbent on the backing band to give them
their shot with nothing ruder than a benmused smile,
and some semblance of the actual rythmn and chords for the song.

What Jim Cohen said works for me too.

These people most likely LOVE country music in a BIG WAY,
enough to want to "Do It Just Once"
We should at least respect their balls for giving it a shot.

Heck, we ALL have played BAD.. REALLY BAD
sometime in our early careers; have we not??

[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 13 June 2006 at 10:44 AM.]

Marlin Smoot · From: Kansas

No matter how good you are, there's always someone better and faster...

...and no matter how bad you are, there's always someone badder and slower.

I was in Nashville last week before FAN FAIR and walked lower Broadway. I wasn't too impressed with what I saw. Decent singers singing the same ol classic country stuff and decent musicians who looked burned out.

None of the steel players I saw were playing anything extreamly hot. At times I was reminded of being in a VFW jam the way they called out songs..."this one's in A"

You see guys playing for one singer then an hour later you see them across the street playing for someone else...for tips. A sad way to mark time if you ask me. I can see where these type musicians can get a bad attitude.

Some of the singers and musicians down there were cool, some were not, just like most places around the USA.

Scott Shipley · From: The Ozark Mountains

These type musicians??

Most of these guys have artist gigs, then come play Broadway on their off days.
I myself played in Texas with Eddy Raven this weekend, got back at 12:00 noon Sunday and leadfooted it downtown to play at the convention center with a girl at 1:00, and then on Broadway that night. If that makes me one of "these type," then guilty as charged. I'm just happy that I'm able to make a living doing what I love, and I don't forget where it comes from either. And just for the record, I won't laugh at anyone who is trying.

Damir Besic · From: Nashville,TN.

Bill Miller · From: Gaspe, Quebec, Canada

We've had people get up with us now and then and some were laughable but I think we've always been gracious and polite. Of course there's something else that can happen if you share your stage with unknown quantities. Sometimes you run across someone who can steal your thunder in short order. I remember one guy, just a local sleeper whose friends kept bugging us to invite up. So we did and he was VERY good and the crowd gave him a big response. Our own singer at that time was pretty reluctant to let that guy get up again

Another time we were the back-up band for an amateur show and a guy from out of town showed up and asked us if he could sit in with the band for the evening as well as sing a few songs in the show. It was a relaxed atmosphere so we said sure...the more the merrier! Well that guy turned out to be the best Telecaster picker I've ever seen around these parts and a pretty good steel player as well. I think I held my own on steel but he totally blew me out of the water on six string. After the initial shot of humility I was glad he showed up though because it was fun to make music with someone that good. No one was laughing at that guy.

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Scott Shipley · From: The Ozark Mountains

Amen Donny, amen.

Vic Lawson · From: White House, Tennessee, USA

If Scott Shipley is correct in saying that there were only 2 other forum members on Broadway Sunday night, then I'm one of those. I agree with Scott on everything he said. It's been a nightmare week here, but the money was great! I play for artists as well as on Broadway. I'm not one to laugh at anyone, but occasionally, as small as those stages are on Broadway, you can converse with other band members, fairly quietly. Sometimes someone will say something funny that is totally irrelevant to the singer or anything else happening on stage. If for some reason that could cause someone to think we're laughing at them, then I guess we're not allowed to have any fun amongst ourselves. I for one don't believe that I'm involved in this particular situation, but I played Legend's 6 to 10 Sunday night. So let's just get to it...was it me?

Vic Lawson · From: White House, Tennessee, USA

P.S. I have no idea who the other member would me. I didn't get around to see who all was working Sunday night.

Barry Blackwood · Posted 13 Jun 2006 5:30 pm

David, it's equally as likely that it was a forgettable lark to the 'singer' done on the spur of the moment. I've played BAD more times in my career than I'd like to admit, and been laughed at for doing it. Life ain't for wimps, so let me reiterate - what doesn't kill us makes us stronger....

[This message was edited by Barry Blackwood on 13 June 2006 at 06:48 PM.]

[This message was edited by Barry Blackwood on 13 June 2006 at 06:49 PM.]

Scott Shipley · From: The Ozark Mountains

Vic, not attempting to speak for Mr. Besic but, I personally do not believe that it was you he was talking about, nor did I think so before your post. That's not your style. The other forum member who was working that night (I believe in hindsight) might just be the victim of his own laugh.........bless his heart, it's very recognizable and pretty darn loud. I still do not believe he intended anything malicious either.
Ok, let's analyze this for a moment strictly from the standpoint of comedic content. Mr. Besic stated that the sit-in singer basically had to have the regular singer sing the song he was supposed to be singing, because he (the sit-in singer) couldn't remember the song. Did I get that about right? Is it just me, or is that in itself pretty darn funny?!? I prolly would have had at least a good chuckle at that myself. But hey, everyone has a different threshold of humor.
And it is very doubtful (save for the remote possibility that said guest singer had an independant record deal, and was there solely for the purpose of selling his wares and/or showcasing, which is pretty unlikely if not very smart since he couldn't remember the words to his big number anyway), that he was taking it very seriously to start with. It is likely however that the guest singer's friends were out in the crowd having a good chuckle themselves......"C'mon, all your friends are doing it!"
People come to Broadway to have fun, as was stated by Mr. Besic himself in the original post that preceded these 17,203 replies. This includes "these type" pickers themselves, myself included. If you go down there to work (and I think everybody ought to have to at least once), expecting to win a grammy from it, then you're gonna be very disappointed.
Like I said before, walk a mile.

Paul King · From: Gainesville, Texas, USA

The opening comments about the steel player laughing at the singer gets under my skin. A musician who does that in public to me is embarassing. I would probably never go across the street to see the steel player perform again. I have played behind some singers who were awful but never laughed at them while they were singing. I have thought how did they have the guts to get up and sing soungding as bad as they did. I sure wouldn't laugh at another musician.

Ray Minich · From: Bradford, Pa. Frozen Tundra

It's painful to watch a performance that is failing.
Does this mean then, that when a performer is on stage, and doing their act, that we subconciously want them to do well...?
I've always thought it was that way.

John McGann · From: Boston, Massachusetts, USA * R.I.P.

Why, just the other night we had a "professional singer" come up and attempt a medley. Her husband told us she sang "everything", had "perfect pitch" and had "done Broadway" (The New Yawk one, which always translates to "MASSIVE VIBRATO")...not only did she not know the words to any of the songs she chose(usually helpful in singing situations), she was so far off key it was like Tuesday over Monday. Not obviously drunk, but certainly "reality enhanced" on some level

So whaddya do? We all sang along to get through it. Everyone had fun. No one made fun of her (at least until we got in the car!)

Then the husband came and said "WhaddI Tellya? PERFECT PITCH!"

As the wise old bumper sticker says: Mean people suck.

[This message was edited by John McGann on 14 June 2006 at 06:07 AM.]

[This message was edited by John McGann on 14 June 2006 at 06:08 AM.]

Ron Kirby · From: Nashville TN

One thing for sure, The(new)Broadway brings in alot of singers, Songwriters, future artist to the stage, to try for the big break a (record deal)! Some made it big time, most did not ! MOST singers(these days) take the Broadway stages very seriously !

Stephen Gambrell · From: Over there

OK, here's a good one. Way back in the 70's, in the NCO club in Germany where I was stationed, some guy wanted to sit in with the band, with the urging of his "friends." The band graciously allowed this extremely drunk guy to come sit behind the drums. Naturally, in the shape he was in, he should never have been allowed onstage, and his friends should not have persuaded him to get up. I and my friends laughed our butts off at the guy, and his friends. Misguided people are everywhere, and sometimes, laughter is the gentlest way to steer 'em back on track!

Charles Davidson · From: Phenix City Alabama, USA

So far I hav'nt got good enough myself,to criticize anyone else.On the other hand,I have always been against having someone sit in [that you DON'T KNOW] For the simple reason if they suck,and a group of people that have never heard your band walks in,that the first impression they get[THE BAND SUCKS]!!!

Johan Jansen · From: Europe

amen Scott!!
Keep going on this way making a living!!
I think a lot of people wish they could live this way.
Making music for a living is working hard, every-one with his or her own skills and joy!
Take care!

Johan

Scott Shipley · From: The Ozark Mountains

First of all, we're not talking about a guy who has chosen music as his vocation, or is certainly not very serious if he can't even remember the words. My nephew (who is 3 1/2) can remember all of the words, and sing "Good Ol' Boys" on pitch, and he stays sober anytime a stage opportunity is present. Is this relevant to the topic? About as much so as some of these posts are. We're talking about a tourist who came to Broadway to have fun, and more than likely DID regardless of someone snickering, and I would bet that probably the steeler wasn't the only one doing so. If this was the tele forum would we be questioning the guitar player instead? I feel somewhat qualified in saying this, as I DO play downtown a lot. And I DO take offense at someone who doesn't know how things work down there attacking me (or my colleagues) for trying to make a living. Those who can't do, post? If you have had the sack to move here and slug it out down there (win or lose) then by all means offer advice. There is more than likely something we can learn from each other, and I am more than willing. It's all about a continual state of learning. But, the original post was made by someone who, my apologies Mr. Besic, I have never seen on one single gig in my eleven years of playing on Broadway (and other Nashville venues). Maybe our paths just never crossed, it's possible, Nashville is a big town. My point is that I am down there quite often (and no, Broadway is by no means my only source of income....anyone who needs to qualify me, please email me, I'll gladly send you my bio), and I have never seen you play a gig. Let alone some of the other folks from elsewhere who have offered up opinions. Remember what I said before about trenchrot?? One cannot TRULY offer knowledgable insight to the inner workings of Broadway (or Nashville for that matter) if they haven't been here and experienced it firsthand. Do I know the record solo to "Touch My Heart?".....no, I don't (will I learn it now that I've thrown gasoline on myself?....you can bet on it). But I CAN hang for 2 4 hour shifts on Broadway and not repeat licks. With no fear. In any key. Backing any singer. Be it Toby Keith, Mark Chesnutt, Vern Gosdin, Englebert, Terri Clark, Carl Smith (and yes, all of these and more have popped in for a song on gigs that I was fortunate enough to be working). or an innocent tourist out for a good time with his buddies. Where did I learn my chops? From sitting in the crowd, not being onstage drunk and ill-prepared, watching and listening and learning from guys like Vic Lawson, Jay Andrews, Kevin Owens, Danny Mohamed, Mike Sweeney, Eddie Lange, Tommy Hannum, and James Shelton. All of which play on Broadway too. Would you consider these guys slack? Didn't think so. They are top shelf, and I'm sorry but I can't sit and watch them or me being slammed on here. Do we have nothing better to do than this?? What if E had spent his time doing this cr*p rather than doing what he did?? You wouldn't have all those great solos to copy in the first place!! Think about it.

quote:
_____________________________________________
"I'm not saying I let everyone up on our bandstand but those I did never cost me a nights work."
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Do you realize that we work for $20 per shift base pay PLUS tips down there (which by the way, hasn't changed since the mid 80's)?? If we let anyone up that we don't know, and they end up not being very good, they actually CAN cost us money, because the crowd will not stay if the music sucks. Therefore, we usually encourage "guest singers" to feed the kitty, and they almost always are happy to do so to get to cut loose on the mic for a song. They also understand that if they aren't very good, they will more than likely only get one shot.
Here's a scenario for you, tell me how this would make YOU feel?!?
A girl gets up to sing (allegedly a seasoned, well trained, working singer from "back home"), wants to sing "Crazy" and butchers it. I mean butchers it. Forgets the words, the arrangement, the key, and almost what state she's from. She shoots a few dirty looks at the band, and we're trying our level best to hold it together and not let her look bad, and then finally after what seemed like at least 45 minutes, the song is over. Then, she says over the mic to the crowd......."I really apologise for this band, they got kinda lost. I have a better band back home."
This actually happened.
One thing that I have learned in my short tenure on this instrument is that it takes a LOT of dedication. There is no "Esteban" infomercial for pedal steel. No easy chord method. Kudos to anyone with the patience and devotion it takes to play steel guitar. Would it be safe to say that you take the instrument seriously? Doesn't it offend you slightly when someone else doesn't? What about music in general?
Nuff said.

Damir Besic · From: Nashville,TN.

???

Db

Damir Besic · From: Nashville,TN.

chil out,I only said that I think that was not nice, that`s all, and if you can play 24 hours without repeating a lick,great more power to you.I can`t.If I had decided to make living playing music I would be much better than what I am now,anybody would..right now I suck..last time I played a gig was 1 1/2 ago..no wonder.

btw..I played almost all the clubs down town for a few years but to tell you the truth I have no idea who you are...so what,maybe we`ll meet one day maybe not.

One time one of the great old guys told me
"all the good players are on the road,what is left is down town"....now..remaind you.those are not my words ,but somebody`s who`s been in business for the last 40 years
Db

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"Promat"
~when tone matters~ www.promatsteelguitars.com

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