The Steel Guitar Forum

I agree with what bOb said.I cant read music or understand theory etc. I just love to sing, and play the guitar by myself, or with the band I had for 30 years.And I've always considered myself a musician.

Leigh

I AM a politician...at least that's what I heard that another steel player said about me...is that bad or good?

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http://home.comcast.net/~steves_garage

B0b.......... I also know many people who play solo who are all musicians as well.
Doesnt matter what kind of music.. all music is made by musicians. Whether one enjoys a particular music is totally subjective....... a good thing I think.

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Got Twang ?

Mark

oops

Mark

<font size="1" color="#8e236b"><p align="center">[This message was edited by Mark Fasbender on 27 February 2006 at 01:54 PM.]</p></FONT>

YEP!

(WARNING: long meandering thoughts of an academic!)
Before we go too far down the umbrage path….

There was something in Bobby’s post that resonated strongly with me, even though I suspect that I am in agreement with those who seem to have taken some offense. I teach music history in a college music department (U. of New Hampshire). Every year we send 30-40 graduates with a big “musician” stamp of approval on their forehead in the form of a Bachelor’s degree in music. All of them have proven they can play or sing up to some standard, all have taken two years+ of music theory, two years of ear training, one year+ of music history, etc., etc. Lately, however, I have become increasingly (and disturbingly) aware of how little many of them really no about music. Yes they can play their instrument in a band or orchestra, or they can sing in a choir, or they can learn and perform solo repertoire. Many of them even play in one of our very good jazz ensembles. But the majority of them cannot do much with out printed music in standard notation placed in front of them. Does that mean they are not musicians? Not necessarily. But it means that they are fairly limited in their musical scope.

More alarming, however, is that many of these folks don’t even know that other people outside of a high school band or college music department can make music without notation, much less the fact that this would account for the vast majority of music made in the world, even in our own country. Case in point: a student gave an excellent presentation last semester on her study of music education in Ireland the previous summer. She was stunned to discover that in Ireland traditional music is played without music. A gasp of wonder and near disbelief emanated from her fellow students in the room. From their questions it was clear that a) they were suspicious one could do this, and b) this was some strange feature of music in Ireland. When I questioned the student about how this might relate to many un-notated traditions in this country, she looked blankly at me for a moment and then offered, “You mean, like jazz?” I said “No, I mean the many folk and popular traditions that are all around us.” Another pause. “You mean, like jazz?” After talking with her following the presentation, and with some other undergrad and grad students, it became clear to me that many of my students are completely unaware f any music making that goes on outside the walls of a school; they are practically culturally illiterate about music. It’s like someone earning an accounting degree who can only do the math if it’s entered on a balance sheet: ask him verbally to add 2+ 3+ 8 and he’s stymied.

I am not going to declare that these students are not musicians. But they are limited in the same way as many of the players described in Bobby’s post. Ultimately, I don’t think it’s a question of whether or not someone is a musician, or a “true” musician, but rather it comes down recognizing one’s own musical limitations, prejudices, weak spots, etc. and trying to move past them. I have all of the above by the bucket full. Maybe discovering classical music in my twenties and choosing to become an academic was my way of committing myself to a lifetime of overcoming my deficiencies. Now, if I could just overcome my steel playing deficiencies … <sigh>: guess I need another lifetime!

Dan


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Dan Beller-McKenna
Durham, NH

It's official..according to b0b's definishun..I are a moosichun.....
Lessee..does this now go to that "2" thingee?

The first musicians played in concert with the sounds of nature around them. Listening was the key--imitating, playing in counterpoint and harmony.

So I would agree: with a head full of theory and a little ability, my musicianship increased when I started playing in bands, where hearing parts, and getting my ego out of the way, we could all begin to sound like a unit, making music.

Now, I'm feeling like less of a musician--or should I say, nothing like a steel player.
After some beginner's luck, I could see the learning curve is bell-shaped: the more you go, the harder it is.
Perhaps I've reached my 'level of incompetence' (the Peter Principle). Playing always came easy; finally I encounter an instrument that requires a lifetime to excel at.

Nonetheless; the ability to listen, or hear, and blend with that may be the cutoff between a player and a real musician.

I enjoyed hearing from the best steel player in Miami.

I know Bobbe's thoughts are formed from a whole lifetime of playing steel, whereas I was just getting into country music five years ago as I got more and more curious about this thing called the steel guitar. So, right at this stage of my game, I'm kind of deliriously happy to to just be able to understand and play some of the great steel guitar phrases I happen to come across, never mind creating my own. I guess it's all a matter of stages, and doing what inspires you.

<SMALL>I AM a politician...at least that's what I heard that another steel player said about me...is that bad or good?</SMALL>

Steve, IMHO that is "good," although the fellow saying it might disagree.

"He plays politics" is usually the accusation hurled by a musician who doesn't have many gigs and envies another who does.

The less-employed player thinks that only musical skill should determine who gets hired; furthermore, that other musicians who have people skills, demonstrate friendliness, and have common outside interests with employers (golf, fishing, etc.) use those characteristics to get gigs they somehow "don't deserve."

Those guys miss the point that for the most part, in ANY job, the entire bag of characteristics of a worker is considered when being considered for a job. Not only the skill at the assigned task, but how he relates to fellow workers, management, and the world in general.

If getting along with many types of people and knowing how to relate to them individually is "playing politics," just about any successful person in his chosen career is a political person.

Steve, your track record in the music bidness speaks for itself. Play on, politico, play on.

Back to the original question, I believe a player is a musician when someone else who is knowledgeable about such things says he is.

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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

Herb,somehow I don't think the fellow meant it as a compliment...but thanks!

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http://home.comcast.net/~steves_garage

<font size="1" color="#8e236b"><p align="center">[This message was edited by Steve Hinson on 28 February 2006 at 06:03 AM.]</p></FONT>

I've always felt you have to be a fan of country music 1st and a musician, whatever instrument, second. I really hate having to work with somebody who says "oh I can play country music, it's easy"; then proceeds to ask me how "Crazy Arms" goes.

I wouldn't try to play in a band that plays hard rock, unless it's classic rock, and I don't think it's too much to ask they know who guys like Hank, Merle and Bob Wills are to play in the band I'm in.

How many times have you played in band and someone asks for a song like "Help Me Make it Through the Night" and one of the band members leans over and asks, how does this go? I usually say something like "just play "Stairway to Heaven", they'll love it"!

I'm speaking of guys who play country new, classic, alt., etc. No disrepect intended for people who play bluegrass, classical, metal, etc.<font size="1" color="#8e236b"><p align="center">[This message was edited by Garry Pugh on 28 February 2006 at 12:31 PM.]</p></FONT>

Well, I must comment on two things I did not expect:

1, the number of responses to this post-- most gratifying, to say the least; and 2, a personal response from the motive force himself, one Mr. R. Seymour, who honors me, no doubt.

Thanks sincerely, everyone.