The Steel Guitar Forum

Yes,what Mike said.--------bb

Dose all of the new barrier's that RR has seemily torn down, mean the possiblity of the every price of a steel comeing down.And the $ 200.00 six stringer going up???????

I liston to the radio clip,and was impressed with RR doing his R&R licks,the tone was of poor quility tho.Even tho I am not impress with R&R .

I wish RR the best in his quest and adventure for fame and fortune,on his novelty toy.

Mike Perowlin from the way you descive L.A. man that has got to be one freaky place to live.

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BJ Bailey

I don't understand this pedal steel evangelism. I've never felt the need to reach out to someone (purple haired or otherwise) with the plea, "This is my steel. Please LOVE IT!".



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Emmons Push Pull S10 | Peavey Session 400 | '52 Fender Lap Steel | Goodrich L120 & Matchbox
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Author Topic: HOW SPECIAL is ROBERT RANDOLPH
Henry
Member
From: Europe
posted 14 July 2001 01:51 AM
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FOR me, Randolph is FANTASTIC in what he is doiing......but (for me, no need for that)if i try
it to compare with what we did hear the last
+-40 years on steel jazz/bluess/swing/pop and
COUNTRY....played ao by BE BC JD LG PF and all the others..........?? i don't (k)NO(W)
Find out for your self.....http://www.createavibe.com/rrvideo.htm

For me, if the playing creates those "steel chills" then it is touching my soul.

Mike Perlowin is correct when he points out where we live gives us access to different players and Herby, Doug, Hal, Hughey, and the rest sure have given me my share of "steel chills." For that, I am thankful.

When I hear my good friend, Mike Bagwell, tell me that when Emmons did the steel shows it was even more exciting by far. That concept blows my mind.

One thing I want to clarify is that the Billy Phelps video clips have everything to do with his technique and execution as the huge contributor to the great tone and he achieved it on an all-pull!

BTW, whenever I get the chance to play a blues tune with the band, I really enjoy it and I do not use distortion. If I use anything at all, it is some chorus effect.

I was speaking more of style and execution when I refer to Jernigan as the "Parker of steel guitar." I know many steel players can play Parker tunes, but I doubt very many can handle the fast ones as well as Doug. So, you guys are technically correct when you say that Parker's influence exceeds Jernigan at this point and I can see from your point of view why you disagree. Just try to look at it from my perspective of style and execution. I can't wait to hear Doug do "Donna Lee" live at full-speed.

I play steel in church every weekend and have a special respect for those who play in church as well.

It is a shame there are those here who think an honest discussion about an event is a war. It all goes back to the "free speech" Nazis--they believe in free speech as long as they approve of what you are saying. Funny thing, though, they appointed themselves as the keepers of it!

I guess another analogy to understand where some of us are coming from would be:

Promoting steel guitar that does not sound like steel guitar is no more of a victory for Pedal steel than the electing of Republicans who govern like Democrats is for conservatives.

Oh yeah, this idea that this new exposure of steel guitar will create jobs for us. That is true, if you want to play that style. Otherwise, new opportunities are not really being created.

Regardless, RR should be encouraged. One benchmark to keep in mind is that Buddy, Doug, Paul and probably some others recorded trend-setting instrumental albums around the age of 25.

It is time for some of you to tone-down the hype and get real and show more tolerance for those with a different opinion than yours.

<SMALL>Oh yeah, this idea that this new exposure of steel guitar will create jobs for us. That is true, if you want to play that style. Otherwise, new opportunities are not really being created.</SMALL>

...makes me think of Bob Dylan playing electric at Newport...that shocked the Folk world and created Folk-Rock and employed a boatload of people...made some of them rich, too...

Frank, here's another possibility of how it "might" create jobs for some of us (over the longer term) even if we don't play sacred steel style: people might start thinking "oh you play pedal steel? isn't that that rock-blues instrument?" instead of thinking "oh you play pedal steel? isn't that that whiney country thing?" I suggest that if they think they former, they'll be about 400% more likely to let me play in their jazz group than if they think the latter! Whaddaythink?

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www.jimcohen.com

(From a review by Giles Bacon)...Robert Randolph is especially interesting to organ fans. The Hammond organ had a big market with smaller churches who couldn't afford pipe organs. From what I read, the pedal steel guitar was an alternative to the Hammond for even poorer churches. Robert doesn't use a Leslie, and doesn't get the same organ tone that Charlie Hunter does, but his tone does have an element of the organ sound to it (can't put my finger on it).

Tuesday night's show was great! They closed with Marvin Gaye's Inner City Blues. Loved the electric washboard!!! Cody Dickinson of the North Mississippi AllStars got up off his drums (only to be replaced by Robert) and straps on a washboard with a pickup, and starts playing some really funk-nasty stuff. Talk about playing sheets of sound...he he he! Much tighter than the first show back in June! Medeski and Randolph were digging each other on stage! You can tell Robert loves that organ sound.

I think it's great that Medeski isn't trying to steal the spotlight at shows or on the CD, he really lets Robert do his thing and plays more of a supportive role. He's done that on a lot of other CDs, but he's got his name on the front of this one.


gROovE!
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Gilles Bacon <groove@mindless.com>
The Hammond Grounds @ http://theatreorgans.com/grounds/
B3groove Mailing List @ http://www.topica.com/lists/b3groove
B3 Concert Trading @ http://db.etree.org/b3groove


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ree-00-dee-doo

<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Cairo Zoots on 09 August 2001 at 10:03 AM.]</p></FONT><FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by b0b on 09 August 2001 at 01:36 PM.]</p></FONT>

<SMALL>Promoting steel guitar that does not sound like steel guitar.....</SMALL>

But Frank, Robert Randolph DOES sound like he's playing the steel guitar. He just doesn't sound like he's playing the STYLE (or styles) you are familiar with.

Which brings up a point. Let us assume RR becomes a huge success, and opens up doors for other steel players. If a producer want's the now popular and trendy sound of the pedal steel guitar as played by Robert and the other sacred steel players, and one of us is hired to do a session, we will have to deliver the sound and style the producer is looking for. Under those circumstances, our E9 country licks would not be appropriate.

If because of Robert the steel becomes the next big thing in rock and blues, and some of us get work because of it, we had better be able to play those style when the situation calls for it.

You hit the bullseye Jim: the more that people hear the steel played in a variety of musical contexts (and isn't it such an amazingly expressive and versatile instrument?!) the more it will "infiltrate" the overall musical vocabulary and listeners's consciousnesses - case in point, about a month ago I saw Alejandro Escovodeo play here at what would be our premiere live music venue and he had a guy named Paul Brainard on tour with him playing a Williams - he also doubled on electric guitar, and for a tune or two, played trumpet. Now, would he blow everybody away at Dallas or St. Louis - probably not, but he was extremely competent (and his tone was extremely acceptable - even, believe it or not, through the infamous red knob Fender "The Twin"), was not only featured prominently on every song he played steel on, but he was literally front and centre on stage.

Another great night for pedal steel guitar

Think of guys like Robert Randolph as those dudes in the parade that are sort of independent of the main floats, but that draw you into the big show. I'm not old enough to have heard the greats live - Price, Tubb, and the like. but I grew up on Emmylou Harris w/Hank DeVito etc. and worked my way back to the roots - and can't get enough of it (i.e. I should own shares in Bear Family) because of that.

Question:

what should a pedal steel really sound like?...

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Greg Simmons
Custodian of the Official Sho~Bud Pedal Steel Guitar Website
shobud.cjb.net


<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Greg Simmons on 09 August 2001 at 10:05 AM.]</p></FONT>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><HR><SMALL>"oh you
play pedal steel? isn't that that whiney country thing?" </SMALL><HR></BLOCKQUOTE> do you mean like "Together Again?" The average person in the audience, including musicians, who don't play steel, for the most part are drawn to the instrument for just that sound. When I gig, people always remark how beautiful the steel guitar sounds. The average person far outnumbers us steel guitar players. We(musicians) are blown away by out of this world instrumentalists, but the average person in the audience would prefer a little whine. Just my observation Larry

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GO TITANS GO!!!

Ah, but Larry, you have to specify which audience you mean when you say that. In the clubs in which steel guitars are usually played nowadays (mostly country-oriented clubs) you are most-certainly correct. The average person wants a little whine with their beer. But these are not the "average people" in audiences in clubs all over the country (or the world), since rock and blues are, I daresay, currently far more popular than country music. So what does the "average" club-goer in America want? Just the beer, thanks, and hold the whine. I'll bet we agree, no?

Jim, I was talking of Country venues, I should have specified. Larry

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GO TITANS GO!!!

If I were Robert Randolph the least thing I would do is to become a member of this forum. I feel disgusted by some of the comments made here. To play my stuff and have to be told by some greedy people that I'll never be half as good as most of the guys around just because I have success with what I'm doing really is the least thing I need. But thank God there's always someone around to "prevent" me from being "overy-hyped" cause it will destroy my young soul, geez.
Go and milk your A+B pedals till they fall off your guitar. Thank God there is so much other music to play.

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martin abend Pedal-Steel in Germany
s-10 sierra crown gearless 3 x4 - Regal RD45 - fender hotrod deluxe

Ahmen, Martin!

Just a couple of quick re-directs for this thread.

1) Robert's abilities, tone, or talent were not showcased on the show, and only partly showcased on NPR. To appreciate the full extent of his talent, I'd recommend a church service. He is an amazing player and showman on a number of levels, and only now exploring of where this musical adventure will take him.

2) When we asked Robert who are his musical heroes he said, "Calvin Cook, Chuck Campbell, and Paul Franklin." All have helped Robert refine his style and he treasures his time with each of them. His practice goal for the last 5 years has been to challenge his hero Paul Franklin who he consideres as the fastest speed picker in the world. I've never had the opportunity to sit and see just how much raw speed Paul could play with, but Robert is certainly knocking on the door from what I've heard him do.

3) Just like you don't like the Pedal Steel to be put into a box, don't try to put Robert in a R&R, Blues, Jazz, or what ever box either because he won't fit. The Sacred Steel tradition he grew up in is different than any of these boxes and deserves it's own recognition. It's a direct link between heart and hands that is loosely derived from the human voice not only in hymns, but in the traditional sermons as well. The mastery is not the same as what you're use to. Just as fusion jazz is critized as not being melodic, so a Sacred Steel player does not aim at perfect pitch or clear picking tones, (that sounds too manufactured or mechanical.) Try to listen to your own voice's pitch as you talk passionately about sometime, then try to duplicate that sound on your guitar with a seperate note for each word and you get the idea. Remember, blues and R&R branched out from this tradition, not the other way around.

4) Having a steel guitar stuck in the middle of the stage isn't something, in and of itself, I would think is all that great. What IS that great is the true ambassidor for our instrument that sits behind it. It takes more than being a great player or accomplished musician; it takes being warm open person who enjoys what he his doing and wants to share it with the world. Many of us have commented on how much Emmons enjoys himself and how it shows everytime he plays. Ricky Davis is another that comes to mind. Robert is cut from the same cloth that he is really having a good time, and that enjoyment is infectious to the audience. Combine that with the fact that in many ways he is everything every mother would wish for their son to grow up to be, and you have the makings of a true role model to introduce the teenage crowd to our instrument. If the glitz and glitter doesn't snag him along the way, you are seeing the rising of a true star.

5) Tiny Tim was unique and famous, but there will never be another like him. Hendrix was unique when he started, but was a pivot point for music because other accomplished players appreciated, admired, and emulated him. The Steel Guitar world will only change if Robert is the first of many. The great news is there are more "undiscovered" players in the wings IF they choose to play outside the church. RayRay, Josh, Elton, along with the established masters like the Campbells, Ghent, Big Ben, and of course Calvin Cooke. There is also a rich pool of the very young players, (I watched Elton Noble's 18 month son try to join in with Daddy and his two older brothers.) These are all fine, talented people to whom steel guitar is an important part of their lives. If they choose to share their music with the secular world, Robert is simply blazing a bright trail for others to follow, and a new chapter in the history of the Steel Guitar may only now be beginning. It would be difficult to find a more deserving leader than Robert, and I wish him every success.<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Paul C on 10 August 2001 at 03:48 PM.]</p></FONT>

Forumites should listen to RR play "Without God" on the Sacred Steel Live!" album. The guy has got right hand chops for days, and is sparing with them so as to be mind-blowing when he does pull them out. Is the performance like "Orange Blossom Special," "Black Mtn. Rag," or "4-Wheel Drive?" No. But it is an emotional masterpiece, IMHO, not a technical one. He's a singer, and he sings with his steel.

Dig it: The guy is 21 years old and has been playing for 9 years. When I was his age, I was still waving "bye-bye" and sucking lollypops. When he matures into adult manhood he will be exceptional.

Will we all have to play like this one day? Who knows? Were there Hawaiian-style players in country music who were made obsolete when Buddy Emmons and Jimmy Day came along? If pop culture accepts the steel as played by the Sacred Steelers as a hip and acceptable part of pop/rock music, there will be people learning to play this way and getting gigs. I'm waiting for my first black kid (or white kid, for that matter) to call me and ask to learn steel Sacred style. I will attempt to get them started, I'm sure.

Parker vs. Steel: Charlie Parker's influence on small combo jazz and the approach jazz musicians take to creating on their instruments is not analagous to steel guitar except on a micro-cosmic level. Steel guitar simply does not have the impact on our culture that the entirety of jazz music in general does.

So IMHO the criteria of a "Charlie Parker of the Steel" should be limited to how CP influenced affected the playing styles of his peers and future players of the instrument. When Parker and Gillespie came along, everyone said "whoa! Now we have to play this way?!"

My feeling on the "Charlie Parker of the steel" issue is that so far, Buddy Emmons is the only steel player with clear title to the belt. Paraphrasing what I wrote on the Buddy Emmons tribute page, there are players who come along with a style so compelling that, once heard, most everyone realizes this is now the new way to play. I believe that Buddy and Jimmy Day reinvented the instrument in the late 1950's, as did Bird and Diz did to jazz in the mid 40's.

Doug Jernigan is of course a monster, and "Jazz by Jernigan" is a masterpiece. But his influence on steel playing styles does not have the implications of Big E.

Just my opinion, of course. Your mileage may vary.

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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

Is it just the excitement that a black man is playing a peddle steel?????If Charley Pride did not devote his style of singing to country music,I would not have any of his music.
But Charley sings country ,so I injoy his music.That should tell you something.

I am glad to see the steel go to other venue's.ButAre we forgetting that steel is already being used in serval rock and roll band's.

The stone's,ZZ Top,Sherle Crow and I'm sure the list go's on.

So this is nothing new.
And I do'nt liston to that either.It just not my bag.

I have alway said the steel guitar will play any kind of music,that the artist setting behind it, has the talent for.

But it's Robert's toy ,he paid for it,now let him do his thing,He'll gain afew and lose afew,regardless how you steel ,ai'nt steeling fun

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BJ Bailey

<SMALL>Having a steel guitar stuck in the middle of the stage isn't something, in and of itself, I would think is all that great.</SMALL>

I don't think it's great; I think it's INCREDIBLE.

One thing I noticed about the crowd at Robert's show last night in NYC, was that most of them had never seen a steel guitar before, I don't think they care what he is playing, but the way he plays and his genuine enthusiasm are infectuous, people were yelling his name out all night and he would look at everyone eye-to-eye and smile this young boy in a candy shop smile, and he made you feel like he was playing for you personally.

I just got Sacred Steel 'live',The Campbell Bros. disc and Roberts disc 'The Word' and really like it, very emotional.

The young generation that is hearing Robert are looking for a connection that the Baby Boomers had in the 60's with Hendrix, the Dead, the Beatles, Etc. and these Jam Bands, Dave Matthews, Phish, Govn't Mule, Even still the Allmansand Dickey Betts, are being turned on to Robert, and I think alot of good will come of it. I think he will become more complex and will really break down some barriers. It's funny but Robert reminded me alot of Buddy Cage, who I think is fabulous, but it seems alot of people in the Steel Guitar Community are not fond of him, but he is a monster and is doing the same thing that Robert is doing with that whole other generation of kids.

just one schmo's take on RR:

I saw him live at Central Park in NYC a coupla saturdays ago, after having read all the hype, etc.

technically, I thought he was very skillful, R hand especially. quick, clean, good intonation. musically, I don't think he was breaking much new ground; if he were playing the same lines on standard guitar, I'd say he was a real good player. the fact that he was knocking the stuff out on steel wowed me tho', as I'm not used to seeing the PSG played like that. the crowd LOVED him, and I walked away having thoroughly enjoyed the show. I'm sure if I saw him playing a church service I'd be completely blown away (just a hunch). his bassist is a fantastic, soulful high tenor to boot.

let's give the guy his due: he's, what, 23 years old? been playing something like 5 or 6 years? cripes, if I had his skills at that age, my life might be a tad easier now or maybe not

make no mistake: the kid's got chops, charm & a good voice. he's a welcome presence in the current pop musical environment (no no-talent-pretty-boy or gangsta thug, he), and (another hunch) in 5 more years he'll most likely make my big toe shoot right up in my boot (apologies to Little Richard). he's the best thing for steel guitar at this time that I could imagine--he is turning SO many young people on to an instrument that they probably never knew existed.

please don't judge ANYONE by a performance on a TV talk show, especially their 1st national appearance. imagine how nervous the guy was, on top of the fact that a TV studio environment is not very conducive for getting a good sound out of a rock-type band. YOU try to sound good under those conditions!

to conclude, he don't shake me to my soul just yet, but give him time, folks, give him time. the kid's an open book, and from what I've been reading, absorbing styles like a sponge.

now, if he could only play like ME.... <FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by HOWaiian on 09 August 2001 at 06:11 PM.]</p></FONT>

The length of this thread is a good indication that RR is a force to be reckoned with....

Interesting points Herb Steiner and well put as usual...with regard to Parker and Gillespie, "will we all have to play this way?"......apparently Miles Davis didn't think so.....

Herb Steiner:

sorry I re-iterated many of your points; I shot off my post before I even got to the 2d page!

nice to know I'm not alone in the world, tho'....

This Randolph ascendance is a good thing. I am not crazy about his licks, siomply because I grew tired of bluesy stuff a long time ago.....the riffs remain pretty much the same, generation to generation. I think my all-time blueser favorite was Michael Bloomfield....(Albert's Shuffle circa1969). Frankly, I heard a lot of Bloomfield in Randolph's playing...but that is not a bad thing.
By contrast, I found the Phelp's clips that ann posted to be far more exciting.....because I heard things I have never heard before on any guitar....and fresh is fascinating.
Still, if Robert can introduce the instrument to a bigger base, God Bless him. It sure would be nice to see steel guitars manufacturers' buhad to fold their tent because demand was not there. That has to end. The artisans are as important as the artists.

oooooopppss...should read:
Still, if Robert can introduce the instrument to a bigger base, God Bless him. It sure would be nice to see steel guitars manufacturers' - many who live on the edge - be able to practice their trade with some security. It would be great to see craftsmen that have had to leave the trade get back in.....because there is increasing demand for product.
The artisans are as important as the artists.
Hey, do you think Robert can play, "Meet Me in St. Louis?"