The Steel Guitar Forum

<SMALL>I bought "Blue" but I wouldn't turn my radio on to hear anything else she has recorded. The good material gets shoved into the "round file" and the public is fed the generic crap the producers and record companies want you to hear and buy.</SMALL>

I always wondered about the thinking that would go into the decision to promote pop material for LeeAnn when she made this huge commercial hit out of "Blue". Did they think only one song like that could make it? Did they have a dearth of material? Did they think it was a fluke? Whatever.

Ladies & Gentlemen, try to look at this from an economic point of view! You can go to any Wal-Mart, K-mart...etc, and buy classic country CD's a whole lot cheaper than the new releases! If you like the "timeless" stuff,once you buy it ( Factoring in heat in a car,children,loaning it out)You shouldn't have to buy it again. Classic country is a bargain! I like knowing that I can buy a "treasure" from the past ,while some kids mother is having to supply the funds for a$20.00 CD! ( this also applys to classic R&R ) So be happy if you like the older stuff,cause your wallet sure will! The only problems you will run into will be: ( taking into consideration that you are steel guitarist)1)Your kids will not ride in the car with you; replaying the "Night Life" intro a dozen times does get on young nerves 2)Pulling up to a red light with the T-tops off and Mel Street going at weld loosening volume levels ,will not get you the looks from the blond in the T-bird! (I swear I was just studying Lloyd Green licks! ) 3) When the band leader asks you if you can play the intro to " Whatever the new song is today" and you say something smart or "I dunno it" ! You will wonder why you didn't get called back to the gig. Some times it pays to spend a little money! P.S. I love Mel Street's music!!!!!!!!! <FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by GORDY NICHOL on 20 October 2000 at 10:55 AM.]</p></FONT>

I see two different issues here. One is the natural evolution of country music. There is a whole generation of people today that grew up listening to both Merle Haggard AND Jimi Hendrix. It is only natural that they would want to fuse the two styles.

This other issue is the manipulation of the music by the record industry. Let's face it, the music business is not about music, it's about business. The suits at the record companies don't care about making good record, they care about unit sales. And the songs and arrangements of the records they produce are determined by accountants, not musicians.

I live not far from Dwight Yoakham's guitarist/producer Pete Anderson, and I know him very casually. Several years ago he told me that whenever he was in the studio with Dwight, some guy form the accounting department would tell him to add strings or fuzz guitars or disco drums or some wither inappropriate sound to make the recordings more appealing to a wider audience. Pete would always try to argue that he was trying to make a recording with some artistic integrity, and the suit wouldn't buy it. The only effective argument Pete had was that Dwight's records were already selling well, and that by if he changed his sound, he might lose some of his audience and the new records might not well as much.

This is not new. I've previously railed against the use of the Anita Kerr Singers on the Duane Eddy "Twang a country tune" album, which, IMHO, despite a lot of great playing by Buddy Emmons, is unlistenable. The record company decided that the vocals would make the album more commercial and bring in more money, so they ruined what otherwise would have been a fine record.

I think that if many of these rock-country hybrid singers and bands were allowed to produce their records they way they wanted, without interference from the record companies, the quality of the music would get a lot better.

<SMALL>There is a whole generation of people today that grew up listening to both Merle Haggard AND Jimi Hendrix. It is only natural that they would want to fuse the two styles.</SMALL>

"Only natural"? NOT! Give me a break, Mike. You can't fuse the music of Merle Haggard and Jimi Hendrix. That would be an abomination!

Right you are b0b, Jimi's family wouldn't stand for it.


Well, let's face it, any music we hear these days is a 'jumbled mass' of styles and influences. Go ahead, name a tune you consider to be pure country. Then listen closer. Is there a hint of what you would call blues or bluegrass? Is the beat similar to swing or maybe a polka? Did the guy who wrote it descend from celtic or mediteranian heritage? Are those Hawaiian or Scottish, German or Native American rhythms?
Let's look at the traditional instrumentation:
Fiddles, guitars, mandolins, all pretty much European I think. Banjo is out of Africa. Drums are, well, universal I guess. Piano in popular music has been used in western culture for the past century or so. And steel guitar, ahh the defining element of Country music, grew out of Pacific Islanders using an object of some sort to slide across the strings of Spanish guitars a couple hundred years ago.
The singers draw on a long tradition of story tellers from The British Isles, Africa and central Europe. So, like I said, Country Music is what each of us hears it to be.
Go ahead, get traditional on me, then define just what that means. I dare ya.
BD

Mike you are onto something..I loved Hendrix but at that time I had never heard of Buck Owens(this was in 1967) but I did hear The Buffalo Springfield's version of a "Childs Claim To Fame" with James Burton playing twin Dobros and loved it...bingo I fell in love with the country sound....by 72 I was into traditional country...also I loved Deacon Brumfield in 1963 playing "Steel Guitar Rag" in 63 on WWVA.One form of music frequently borrows from another and creates different styles...it has always been this way.Pete.

BD, I can't confirm this but I always heard the B@njo was a orignal from the "Colonies" and was not inherited from another country. Perhaps b0b or someone who is knowledgable can help us out.

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kd...and the beat goes on...

I think any change for the better should be accepted, reluctantly or graciously. The current popular country is not a change for the better though. It is a sexual oriented market with an enormous amount of electronic gadgets making pretty boys and girls sound good. Please don't misunderstand me, there is a lot of good talent accepted by the Nashville Community now, but on the other hand there is an enormous amount of raw talent having to sit on the side and watch their careers go down the drain because they are getting a little age on them or they aren't sexy enough. I think the commercial aspect of country is losing millions of dollars also because a lot of us "OLD COOTS" have managed to get a few dollars ahead over the years and would gladly spend a few bucks to buy material we want to hear or would drive to a concert of the quality we like. George Strait got an award for "Murder On Music Row" that should tell those folks up there something. Country music got started by "RAW TALENT". It is now focused on the wrong talent. Skimpy clothes and skin tight jeans seem to be the kicker now. I like all kind of music to a certain extent but traditional country is my favorite and will be from now on. There is a market for what they are calling country music now but I can't for the life of me see why the record industry is choking the life out of great talent that has been faithful to country music for years and all at once now they act like those guys and girls have leprosy or something akin to it!

WAKE UP NASHVILLE, THERE IS STILL A HUGE MARKET FOR TRADITIONAL COUNTRY. GIVE US A BREAK!!!

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Sierra Session and MSA Classic Guitars, Nashville 400, Session 400, and Evans FET 500 Amps.
Harold Parris email hparrisal@aol.com

Not to take anything away from those who do like this stuff, but What do I personally have against the "new" "Country Music" ?
.
Nothing, so long as I don't have to listen to about 90 percent of it.
.
I had to make a four-hour drive last night, right through the middle of one of the largest & greatest metropolitan areas in the world.
I was constantly surfing the FM band, searching for some music for the road. With merely two exceptions, one notable and one not, every song I was able to receive on any of the "Country" stations in the area was the current ~textbook~ swill...Either:

A whiney-sounding female "singer", who could not carry a tune in a Euclid mine-quarry dumptruck, puling some lame lyric over an (at best) trite harmony & melody, AND/OR:
A whiney-sounding female singer, who could not carry a tune in a Euclid mine-quarry dumptruck, puling some lame lyric over the framework of a harmony & melody copped from some familiar-sounding tune, which at some point in time must have charted & made someone some money.
There's plenty of great music available "out there", both old and new, to listen to and play.
It's just my personal choice, but I would rather forego listening to whatever that noise coming in on the radio was last night.
.
I hope you will the opportunity to take in lots of the good "old" stuff, I'm sure you will enjoy it!<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Rich Paton on 21 October 2000 at 09:25 PM.]</p></FONT>

Well,I'm a man of few words. Mixing country with rock,is exactly what it states, a "CROCK"!!

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BD
First off I don't need a dare to answer a question.
Second 99% of the time I listen to music that was recorded before 1990. So I don't have to hear the jumbled mess.
Pure country song: Together again (you said name one). No blues or bluegrass. No swing or polka. The guy who wrote it descended from Sherman TX.
As far as the instruments, their orgin has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. It's the style of playing that counts. In fact one of the best country lp's I have is a Floyd Tillman lp with no steel at all.
Next time I talk to Johnny Bush I'll ask him about all his african influnced vocals.
Not once did I mention "traditional country".
If you don't like real country music that's fine. I like it, I study it, and I play it.

kindly keep it country
Kevin

Mixing country with Hendrix.. well what about Neil Young in the 1970s, he mixed the most angst ridden wrist slashing country elements with tortured guitar sounds, remember 'Comes A Time'.. it kind of invented grunge.

Rolling Stone's country writer from 1969-1972 knew Ray Benson before Asleep At The Wheel took off, he also used to write about George Jones while he used to hand out in Detroit watching all the Motor City rock bands, he was even good buddies with some of the Stooges (soon to unleash Iggy Pop on the world)

In the 1980s there was the whole Cowpunk and new wave of rockabilly thing, which was the total opposite to urban country. Jason & The Scorchers, Steve Earl, 'X', The Blasters (they had an acoustic spin off), Rank & File, k. lang & the reclines, The Wagonmasters, The Slaughtermen, The Beasts of Bourbon, Country Porn, the Mekons, Battle Creek and many, many more.

What came out of the Cowpunk, rockabilly and punk scene in the 1980s were the likes of the Jayhawks, Uncle Tupelo, Wilco, the Palace Brothers, Blood Oranges, The Waco Brothers, Junior Brown (had a brief stint in Rank & File), Steve Earle, James Entveld, etc.
Some of it'd more country, old timey, rock or whatever, but it's evolution all the same.
Evolution brought Bluegrass from old timey string bands and brother duets, or Western Swing from dance bands.
Even a business decision like 'The Nashville Sound' had long term effecs on the industry with people working with that system, paralell or directly against it.

It will be interesting to see where this all goes in the next ten years.
Personally I prefer a quality hybrid, like k.d lang who has mixed lounge, country, rockabilly and sweeping pop dance styles.
Ben Mink her collaborator, songwriter, guitar, arranger and fiddler used to play country rock in the bars of Calgary with Ian Tyson in the 1970s.
To me you have people like k.d or Dwight Yokam who have different styles of crossover that is more about an artistic style and choice comapred to something like Shania Twain which seems to have the worst elements of bad brainless 1980s cock rock in country surrounds.
REally bad cheese disco, kind of lateall that Billie, Boys To Men, S 2 S, Spice Girls type stuff.
I don't buy it, nor will I purchase it, that's about the best I can do.


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The future ain't what it used to be

This thread has legs, eh?

Well, i grew up on all kinds of ROCK and POP. I only discovered Country in the early 80s. I prefer my Country the traditional way. I like some Pop/Rock/Country if it's got a boogieing bassline, like say, the song Bigger Than The Beatles comes to mind or Hard Lovin' Woman... stuff like that.

Smiley,

I also like my country pure and traditional.

But as far as mixing country and rock... you gotta admit Carl Perkins had something cool going on there for awhile. As did Ricky Nelson and the Everly Bros.

And while the stuff being done in the tail end of the 60's and the early 70's by the likes of the Burrito Bros and Commander Cody & His Lost Planet Airmen might not meet Buckeroo standards, it's a hell of a lot more country than this drivel currently coming out of Nashville.

Regards,
HH <FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Harry Hess on 24 October 2000 at 06:46 PM.]</p></FONT>

Uphere in Holland some real sick things are going on....
About 10 years ago, a lot of people discovered line-dancing, it became a real hype,linedance-clubs came up everywhere.
There came even TV-shows about it and contests, and also some Dutch people became world-champion-linedancing. Bands got a lot of work, and a lot of crap-bands went over to their form of "country-music" Then the ballroom-dance-schools saw they could make good money with giving linedance-lessons in their schools, big bissness (sp?)They don't give a $hit about country music, but just try to make nmoney with learning people to do their funny walks..
To keep them in, they made a kind of cross-over to "country-cha-cha, country -tango, country-samba and more crap. A lot of disco-like scooter-lee records are played on country-shows. When they play them, all people start dancing, and when a country band plays, they all gonna sit and talk or visit the restrooms, or gonna buy some more rhine-stone-outfit, also big money involved. They even come to the stage for requests for the samba,cha cha and tango they learn in the dance-schools. This is going on more and more , and will lead to the death of a lot of so-called fake country-bands, and finally to the end of fake country-music, they will go on with the ballroom-stuff.
I hope the real lovers of countrymusic , a small crowd, some little clubs, and the real honest musicians survive, and a new area will come. I will keep doing my thing and wait....... and believe in what I do
Thanks for reading, JJ

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STEELDAYS 2000
my web-site
my band COD

Ok I spent the last 10 days listening to so-called Country Radio too give it a fair shot. I enjoyed parts of it ,there was some (very Little)traditional played in between 40 or so of the sound alikes.I had a real problem recognizing the artist especially the female's.It seemed like screaming the lyirics is in. Steel Guitar now thats another story.If you listen real close you can hear fills and a line or two,nothing I would call hard for any of the resident Steel players in Nashville.Commercialy lacking. The Jackson,Strait music is different. The Steel is out there where it belongs. All in All I rather listen too a Easy listening Jazz station. They play what they call themselves.

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CJC

The way I see it is the music industry is just like the news media. You only get the
news that the media wants you know hear. This way they can twist the truth to influence how you vote and etc. This is relative to the music industry. They tell
the radio stations what to and not to play.
How are we to decide what we like and want to hear if we are not given an opportunity to choose.

I would like to know what the future of the
Grand Ole Opry with this so called country
music we have today?

Time will tell!

Dale wrote:<blockquote><font size-1>
How are we to decide what we like and want to hear if we are not given an opportunity to choose.[?]</font></blockquote>

You decide by not listening and using current technology to find what you do want to here.

People site statistics but fail to factor in population growth. I rarely listen to Country radio (because of content) and all these years i have never been polled our asked what stations i listen to. Where do the figures come from?

Every day this past week i have been listening to my Sweethearts Of The Rodeo (the group) tape going to and from work because it contains music i want to hear.

Line Dancing is not a new thing. The military has had it for years. They call it CLOSE ORDER DRILL

It's not that it's bad music. It's just NOT COUNTRY. People don't know where country came from anymore. And, If you think today's music is country, then your part of the problem not the answer. And, that's all I got to say about that. Thank you.


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Abraham

Abraham I like your final two sentences.AKA part of the problem. You are so right.

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CJC

thank you for liking my speech. I wish there were more prople like us.

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Abraham