The Steel Guitar Forum

Posted: **21 Nov 2006 3:00 pm**

You bet!

Posted: **21 Nov 2006 3:29 pm**

I don`t care who makes it,if it is a push pull I have to have it.
I think guitar that Winnie Winston made was also a push pull,would love to try to play it and hear it.

Db

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"Promat"
~when tone matters~ www.promatsteelguitars.com

Posted: **21 Nov 2006 3:41 pm**

Damir,

About the "nut" on the shaft of the Kluson Tuners...my Zum Hybrid has Kluson Tuners for the very reason you site...that is, the transfer of vibration to the body. The Klusons have no nut on the shaft AND no plastic bushings to absorb vibration. They are metal-to-metal throughout.

I'm sure that the Promat folks thought of all that, too.

I have a new Zum Hybrid coming in December and it will have the "No-nuts", "No-bushings" Kluson Tuners on it, too.

Best personal regards,

bUd

[This message was edited by Bud Harger on 21 November 2006 at 03:42 PM.]

Posted: **21 Nov 2006 3:44 pm**

Can he settle for an imitation

why do I have to settle anything?If guitar is imitation of another guitar does that makes it worthless?
If all violines are copy of Stradivarius does that mean that non of them are good and they are all bad copies?
Before you judge something you should at least give it a try and see how you like it.So far I didn`t hear one bad thing from anyone who actualy played the thing.
We did compare Promat to `66 bolt on Emmons back to back and Promat kicked butt,played and sounded better than `66 bolt on...so how`s that for imitation?

Db

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"Promat"
~when tone matters~ www.promatsteelguitars.com

Posted: **21 Nov 2006 3:56 pm**

my Zum Hybrid has Kluson Tuners for the very reason you site...that is, the transfer of vibration to the body.

thank God I`m not crazy,I guess Bruce makes copies too,right

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"Promat"
~when tone matters~ www.promatsteelguitars.com

Posted: **21 Nov 2006 4:26 pm**

MHO is that Promat builds a very good steel.I played one in Europe once and they play very smooth and have good action.But.....I don't hear a lot a difference in the Emmons or The Promat P/P's.That does not say that they are bad.Sure..if you flip both of them over and take of the name tags,you will see no differance between the Emmons and The Promat.
Bobbe Seymour said once that the Promat sounds better then the Emmons.I for one don't hear that.

Damir likes the guitars so much that he bought a couple of them.He made a post in which he said that Promat not only builds black P/P's but also added other colors.I like the color that he showed in his pictures.

Until your business competitor copies your product design!

Don't they all do that?

Atom sign has a much more important and widely use than being on the fretboard of the steel guitar and "Emmons" company owns a name "Emmons" only because they stold it from Buddy.

True....but everybody knows that those are the "Emmons" trademark.
Further then that don't I see a big problem here.But I have to say (and this is my personal opinion)....Nothing can beat an Emmons.

Ron

Posted: **21 Nov 2006 4:42 pm**

True....but everybody knows that those are the "Emmons" trademark.

you mean,everybody in steel guitar community,right?

Nothing can beat an Emmons.

yes it can, a Promat

Db

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"Promat"
~when tone matters~ www.promatsteelguitars.com

Posted: **22 Nov 2006 3:53 am**

Damir, You make the point that you have almost no time to play your pedal steels, yet you seem to spend much time trying to sell us on the Promat's features. Are you a promat dealer? Do you get a commission on each one sold over here? (If not why do you spend so much time trying to make us like them instead of playing it???

Brian henry

Posted: **22 Nov 2006 9:09 am**

As far as the Emmons Kluson tuners, I see as well that my '71 Emmons doesn't have the nut either and never gave it much thought before these post.

I never particulary like the looseness of the Kluson keys, as when you tune it up and you overshoot the pitch, you turn it back and there is a looseness there that you can easily feel. But it always held and stayed in tune.

I do see a small hole on the casing, maybe this is for oil or grease? I never had the caps off.

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1971 Emmons D-10 8/7 #1568 D, Rosewood

[This message was edited by Randall Miller on 22 November 2006 at 09:09 AM.]

Posted: **22 Nov 2006 12:09 pm**

Damir, You make the point that you have almost no time to play your pedal steels, yet you seem to spend much time trying to sell us on the Promat's features. Are you a promat dealer? Do you get a commission on each one sold over here? (If not why do you spend so much time trying to make us like them instead of playing it??? Brian henry

Brian I`m not selling you anything,I`m not a dealer nor I get anything from Promat to talk about their guitars.I don`t care who likes them as long as I do.I wish I have more time to play yes,but I don`t at this moment.
Promat is the only company in the world that makes guitars nobody else wants to bother with,I think that alone should be a big plus for Promat at least in the eyes of the true push pull fan (as I`am).Push pull guitars are too expencive to make,it`s cheaper and easier to make an all pull,I think we all know that already.
I think they deserve much more credit and support than what they get from us,just MHO.

Db

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"Promat"
~when tone matters~ www.promatsteelguitars.com

Posted: **7 Dec 2006 12:41 pm**

A helpful resource about push-pull is Bobbe vid:
Maintainance Series
Emmons Original Push-Pull
Tuning and Maintainance

The mysteries of the push-pull guitar are simply and graphically explained so anyone can thoroughtly understand this type of chord changing system. This video explains how this type of changer is constructed and why it sounds better, stays in tune better and makes the push-pull guitars the choice of the most discriminating professionals, extremely collectible and their value continues to rise. This tape is a must for any Emmons push-pull guitar owner.

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"The less I was of who I was, the better I felt." -- Leonard Cohen

Posted: **7 Dec 2006 12:49 pm**

Darryl,

Bobbe is one of the very last big cats who still use p/p guitars.I think he did more for a push pull than anyone else ,other than Buddy himself of course.
I got my first p/p from Bobbe and with that guitar I also got a p/p bug wich I still have.I`m very glad that Mr.Papic decided to base his guitars on push pull Emmons ,I`m so glad that I actually bought two.
If you ask me,I think that both Bobbe and Mr.Papic deserve way more credit from steel guitar comunity for keeping this unique and awesome sounding machine alive.

Db

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"Promat"
~when tone matters~ www.promatsteelguitars.com

Posted: **7 Dec 2006 1:22 pm**

Bottom line, what is the cost of a promat with 6 on the floor and 4 knee's?. Black.

D-10[This message was edited by Dan Carey on 07 December 2006 at 01:27 PM.]

Posted: **7 Dec 2006 3:32 pm**

Damir,

Are you sure your site is working? I clicked on it and got one of those can't-find-it messages.

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"Most people's favorite music is from the era before they got married." --Earnest Bovine[This message was edited by Darryl Hattenhauer on 07 December 2006 at 05:08 PM.]

Posted: **7 Dec 2006 4:06 pm**

The only subtle difference, I think, is the Promat is metric... don't try to put Emmons screws in there... they won't go...

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Mikey D...

Posted: **8 Dec 2006 12:55 pm**

Dan,
I have no clue,prices are on the web site but your set up with 9+7 would be more I would think.But to get the correct price you would need to contact Promat directly,email address is on the site.

Darryl,

I was just on the site to check it out and it works fine for me

Michael,

I wouldn`t know about metric thing on Promat,it`s European instrument so it would be very well possible that you`re right

Db

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"Promat"
~when tone matters~ www.promatsteelguitars.com

Posted: **8 Dec 2006 1:13 pm**

Damir,

none of these work for me: http://search.aol.com/aolcom/search?invocationType=bottomsearchbox.search&query=damir+zanne+site%3Ahometown.aol.com

I googled you and clicked on the link to your site from several locations, but I still can't get through. For example, Could somebody else here try?[This message was edited by Darryl Hattenhauer on 08 December 2006 at 01:16 PM.]

Posted: **8 Dec 2006 3:21 pm**

Darryl,

I tought you were talking about Promat website,sorry.
My website was under my ex wifes aol account and it looks like she canceled it.After cleaning up my business account and stilling all my business and personal documents along with many other things I`m not suprised at all.I will put together another web site in the future I guess but for right now I have no plans to do so.Nor I have any plans to get married again any time soon.

Db

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"Promat"
~when tone matters~ www.promatsteelguitars.com

Posted: **8 Dec 2006 9:28 pm**

I have played several push pulls in various states of mantainance.
3 were fully restored by Tommy Cass,
including John Davis's 'Blondie'.

I have played Damir's 1st Promat,
and it was great,
no question a super instrument.
I also saw a video of Bobbe playing it,
and running out of words about
how much he liked it.
Yeah Bobbe running out of words.

Imitation is the most sincere form of flattery.
A high quality imitation, can also be
a homage to a past design, currently out of favor,
but not without certain strong aspects worth keeping alive.

I believe the Promat fits this description quite well.
It is a labor of love on Mr. Papic's part.

Posted: **9 Dec 2006 9:03 am**

David,

good to see you here,how are girls in Tailand doing?
You always say nice things about those guitars,I bet if you order one they will give you a hell of a discount

your buddy,
damir

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"Promat"
~when tone matters~ www.promatsteelguitars.com

Posted: **14 Dec 2006 5:47 pm**

Uhh...could someone tell me why a push/pull is supposedly so "expensive" to make? When I look at the underside of mine, it sure looks pretty much the same as any other pedal guitar...rods, springs, levers, screws, pivots, ect..

Am I missing something?

Posted: **14 Dec 2006 7:21 pm**

Donny, good question! I've been wondering, too. (Though I don't have a push-pull here to look at.)

To which I would add a couple of questions of my own:

What was the original motive for designing a push-pull mechanism in the first place? (Buddy?)

and

Why did the Emmons company stop making them? (Maybe because it was too expensive? See Donny's question.)

Posted: **14 Dec 2006 7:34 pm**

Doing a search I found this past thread:
http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum5/HTML/004619.html

But I still wonder, was the tone effect a planned-for consequence of the push-pull design, or a "happy accident"?

Posted: **15 Dec 2006 5:03 am**

Uhh...could someone tell me why a push/pull is supposedly so "expensive" to make?

more parts+more complicated mechanisam= bigger expences and more labor = higher price

Db

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"Promat"
~when tone matters~ www.promatsteelguitars.com

[This message was edited by Damir Besic on 15 December 2006 at 05:05 AM.]

Posted: **15 Dec 2006 9:37 am**

Hey Damir, I live in M'boro and work in Brentwood, so I pass by LaVergne every day. I know what you mean about not having any time to play!

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Kyle Everson
Sho-Bud Pro-II
Fender Twin Reverb
Goodrich 120

[This message was edited by Kyle Everson on 15 December 2006 at 09:37 AM.]

The Steel Guitar Forum

Promat doesn`t make only black guitars