The Steel Guitar Forum

Brooks Montgomery wrote:I have a crazy friend who has an act called “Drum Machine”.
He’s a drummer. He drums on his kit and tells jokes. The rest of the band are mannequins, with recorded BIAB music, with mic stands.

Does he get gigs? I’m an unemployed mannequin with Garage Band experience.

Fred Treece wrote:

Brooks Montgomery wrote:I have a crazy friend who has an act called “Drum Machine”.
He’s a drummer. He drums on his kit and tells jokes. The rest of the band are mannequins, with recorded BIAB music, with mic stands.

Does he get gigs? I’m an unemployed mannequin with Garage Band experience.

He asked if you can eternally keep a “big sale on Thursday” smile on your face.
And , oh yeh, no bathroom breaks.

Let me preface what I am about to say with this... I believe in the old school method of using a live player on steel, because I are one and make part of my living with a steel guitar. However, if you were to play that track for 25 non-steel players, 99.9% would say that is a steel guitar making that sound, if you played them a steel guitar track ahead of time. The general public has no clue. The vast majority of them have no musical ability and have tin ears. Most could not carry a tune in a bucket, much less tell the difference in a synth guitar and a real one. I could see this thing being used for demos and garage bands for recording their songs. This will never replace a real player in quality,EVER however, where money is involved, this may cut out some players for demo sessions. If you bury it in the mix, as most recordings are doing, it is a decent representation that most people would not know the difference. How about the producers that only wants pads and slides? Jus' sayin'. Flame on!

“When the Impossible Whopper becomes Soylent Green,
And a real drummer is called Drum Machine,
That’s when real pedal steel becomes a passing dream”.

Thats pretty good Brooks!

This is perfect for today’s soulless bro country and wimpy singer songwriters. Good. They won’t call me. I will keep doing my same gigs, and same alt country ppl will hit me up to play on their record. None of these trendy computer fads mean anything to me. I get more offers to play than I can even do. Live in a noisy barrroom with an old push pull and an LTD 400. That’s where I will be. Like fake amps, this is just toys for ppl who actually like computers. I don’t. Give me my big iron and a bar gig somewhere. This is a big yawn for me. If ppl dig it that’s ok. Room for everyone. It’s great. Just not very interesting to me. I will get the same work I always have. Nothing will change.

Go Tom! 👍

Is anyone else considering installing a MIDI pickup on their steel to control this software? If you have any success, please let me know. Thanks.

Some killer stuff going on of course, but lots of crappage also.

"crappage"

I learned a new word today. I love it!

Roy Carroll wrote:Let me preface what I am about to say with this... I believe in the old school method of using a live player on steel, because I are one and make part of my living with a steel guitar. However, if you were to play that track for 25 non-steel players, 99.9% would say that is a steel guitar making that sound, if you played them a steel guitar track ahead of time. The general public has no clue. The vast majority of them have no musical ability and have tin ears. Most could not carry a tune in a bucket, much less tell the difference in a synth guitar and a real one. I could see this thing being used for demos and garage bands for recording their songs. This will never replace a real player in quality,EVER however, where money is involved, this may cut out some players for demo sessions. If you bury it in the mix, as most recordings are doing, it is a decent representation that most people would not know the difference. How about the producers that only wants pads and slides? Jus' sayin'. Flame on!

Exactly.. That abomination would have done just as well as I did in 90% of my studio sessions over the decades, because my steel parts were just a "pad, a flavor, a hint, "icing n the cake"-that sort of crap.

It will replace a few guys in local sessions I am sure.. Will it decrease orders on new steels?.. Highly doubtful... bob

The pathetic thing about this and other “music-making” software (like Garage Band, BIAB, and Shreddage) is that the operator may never know how it feels to actually play the instrument being emulated, and the accompanying joy and thrill that entails. Making the sound is not the same as playing the instrument.

Of course, purist players like me and apparently many others here, may never know what the keyboardist/computer operator is experiencing either. Maybe they think they’re actually playing steel, who knows. I know a guy that “creates” his own karaoke tracks, and thinks that clicking the menu button that alters the midi track playback is a compositional skill. Is that progress? Is that evolution? I think it’s another reason to just shake my head and plod on like I always have in spite of it, because I actually like playing the real instrument and feel kinda sorry for the toy operators.

Fish wrote: But there is zero personality here; a keyboardist can't emulate the touch and soul of a Mooney or Emmons or Green.

It will never happen.

Mitch

My goodness those demos sound awful!! That’s not music to me, it’s a product.

I think the younger generations will look at the program as easier to learn than sitting down at a steel and learning it and it’s much cheaper... there is a lot of synthesized music these days, especially in film. These programs are here to stay, and they will get better. In the meantime I’ll stick to listening to Emmons/Pennington...

hey, at least he’s in tune ...

We can all hate it and bitch and moan all we want (I don't like the idea either), but remember that the recording business at large really don't give a rat's ass what we think. There are the handful of producers that do care, but we have been seeing a decline in those in recent years, everywhere, even in Nashville. Basically, we just need to get over it.

Fred Treece' comment above reminded me of something I once heard a Dee-Jay say: "I can can all sorts of musical genres - I'm really versatile..."

There has been Pedal Steel software with licks and swells in programs like Logic Pro/Garage Band for a long time.

Whether we like it or not, the most successful of the next generation of producers and engineers will be the ones that are experts at computer assisted music.

I use it all the time in my home studio with Band In Box, MIDI programs, drum loops, and all kinds of digital software and devices. I try to play all the lead parts that I can, and do the vocals. I'd prefer a live band to work with, but that's not feasible for me to do. It's the end result bottom line that matters. I've found that the huge majority of listeners don't know the difference, and they dont really care how you got there. What's important to them is that they enjoy listening to it.

RC

The first demo of this has the intro part for 'Emmylou' by the Swedish duo First Aid Kit. I wonder if Melvin Duffy has seen this or knows about it as he played the original steel part. I think my point is no matter how good a software package might sound, you need to have the mind and inventiveness of a steel player for it to ever work. Even simple 'pads' take some thinking about to sound right.

Fred Treece wrote:The pathetic thing about this and other “music-making” software (like Garage Band, BIAB, and Shreddage) is that the operator may never know how it feels to actually play the instrument being emulated, and the accompanying joy and thrill that entails. Making the sound is not the same as playing the instrument.

I think it's even more than this. Was just thinking this morning and, as good as modern synths are (I was listening to a record with a Fender Rhodes sound on it) that I kind of feel sorry for kids these days.
When I was in my early 20's in Birmingham, there was a local mostly cover band I used to see a lot called Bud Greene...
Those guys used to hall a real B3 and Leslie around with them to every dinky bar they played. Being able to stand right in front of that rig, hear it, feel it, really appreciate it is something I still think very fondly of. Kids these days have little to no chance of ever experiencing that.

Damir Besic wrote:hey, at least he’s in tune ...

That's why I thought it sounds better than me. Also I like that you can play any bend right away without having to put the instrument on the work bench for 3 hours first.

Brian Hollands wrote:

Fred Treece wrote:The pathetic thing about this and other “music-making” software (like Garage Band, BIAB, and Shreddage) is that the operator may never know how it feels to actually play the instrument being emulated, and the accompanying joy and thrill that entails. Making the sound is not the same as playing the instrument.

I think it's even more than this. Was just thinking this morning and, as good as modern synths are (I was listening to a record with a Fender Rhodes sound on it) that I kind of feel sorry for kids these days.
When I was in my early 20's in Birmingham, there was a local mostly cover band I used to see a lot called Bud Greene...
Those guys used to hall a real B3 and Leslie around with them to every dinky bar they played. Being able to stand right in front of that rig, hear it, feel it, really appreciate it is something I still think very fondly of. Kids these days have little to no chance of ever experiencing that.

And it eliminates the most ironic and depressing part of music - spending countless of hours of intense effort and frustration to learn an instrument and thousands of dollars in gear just to have no one care.

One word...."Meh".

I don't see this taking off for live work; it'd be a ton of work to play this real time. As far as manually sequencing a few backup licks and maybe a turnaround for a recording where the pedal steel isn't the focus, yeah, it'll pass for most people.

I sure pity whoever got stuck with the job of playing all those random notes to make the samples that power this software.