Emmons 13 secret’s for sound

[Tom Gorr]

I am far from an expert, but lately, as I begin to play more in tune, I am noticing a better tone as a result. Just as an experiment, I tried tuning just a little sour, and my sustain decreased. I think that sweet harmonies want to "bloom", and dissonant sounds tend to choke.

Exceedingly practical truth.

I also read that Emmons guitars were designed with help from physics equations, so I would expect all components and dimensions were looked at as individual vibrational engines but doubt it was practical to go past that level at the time.

Also, pickups and the load they see are very important.

A tight joint between keyhead and neck (and changer, on wood neck guitars) is very important for low freqs and sustain. I found that on my MSA when I pulled it apart and reassembled. It was dead when I reassembled but restored it when the joints were tight. This principle is the same as six string bolt on neck guitars too.. the neck pocket needs to be a tight fit.

Two other design issues are:

1) changer mount design
2) how the strings attach to fingers (eg.. pin)

[Donny Hinson]

I would think Buddy Emmons knew on a deeper level what made a great sounding steel because he had to have known the confidential processes used to build Emmons guitars... Maybe not, I don't know.

I don't buy all the rumors of confidential or "secret assembly processes" giving them a unique sound. Sure, you have to know what you're doing, but it's not rocket science...or voodoo. Too many Emmons guitars have been torn down and rebuilt outside of the Emmons factory, by any number of people, and with good to great results.

Fingers pulling directly against the wood? I don't know about that one either. The same thing happens on Marlen guitars, and I don't think they sound anything like an Emmons.

Crash go the chariots?

[Henry Matthews]

Don’t know if if it would make any difference in tone but about month ago, I had two guitars, Double 10’s, apart here at home that I was working on. One was a 66 Emmons and other was a top brand guitar. I had the necks off both guitars and had the Emmons neck in my hand as I walked around table and just barely bumped it on hard table top and it made a bell ringing sound. My hand probably dampened it some so I stuck a pencil thru pickup hole just holding it that way and barely tapped it with a screw driver. It sounded just like a bell. Got to thinking so I took other guitar neck that was also off and did the same thing and it went clunk. Other guitar sounded ok but nothing like the Emmons so like I said, it may or may not make a difference, you tell me.

[Billy Carr]

Buddy Emmons & Ron Lashley, Sr. !!!

[Donny Hinson]

Don’t know if if it would make any difference in tone but about month ago, I had two guitars, Double 10’s, apart here at home that I was working on. One was a 66 Emmons and other was a top brand guitar. I had the necks off both guitars and had the Emmons neck in my hand as I walked around table and just barely bumped it on hard table top and it made a bell ringing sound. My hand probably dampened it some so I stuck a pencil thru pickup hole just holding it that way and barely tapped it with a screw driver. It sounded just like a bell. Got to thinking so I took other guitar neck that was also off and did the same thing and it went clunk. Other guitar sounded ok but nothing like the Emmons so like I said, it may or may not make a difference, you tell me.

I can't answer that definitively, Henry. But what Bill Moore said on page one must be considered,too:

I don't think the neck matters at all. I had a GS-10 Emmons, the student model, that had no neck of any kind. It sounded as good or better than the Emmons D-10 that I owned.

I've heard more than a few players say that their Emmons p/p student models sounded just as good as the regular "pro" guitars. They have no real neck, and no traditional cast end plates. So how do we explain that? Well, to me, it would indicate that the changer and key head are more important than necks and end plates, regardless of what they're made of.

[Tyler Hall]

Nobody's gonna mention the keyheads, huh?

[Tyler Hall]

Gary, since that's Formica and not wood you're looking at, I doubt those knots will affect the tone. If you take a heat gun and take that Formica off, something tells me you'll find straight grain maple underneath it. That "knot" is only a picture. But it's a pretty picture.

[Gary Spaeth]

here's a stripped one.

[Jim Palenscar]

Paul Franklin Sr told me once that a guitar w no neck and a guitar w an aluminum neck sound the same but a guitar w a wooden neck sounds different. To me that might make sense because an aluminum neck is hollow and a wooden neck is solid and might act as a clamp/inhibitor for overtones. Also- Bud Carter worked at some college/university and measured frequency transmission of woods and as I recall said that knots were a bad thing in that respect. Buddy also told me about the neck screws after he killed the tone in one of his guitars by tightening everything up and then he loosened everything one part at a time and it was the neck screws that were responsible for killing the tone. To me tone is subjective- like what do you like- chocolate or vanilla? Is one better?

[b0b]

Buddy also told me about the neck screws after he killed the tone in one of his guitars by tightening everything up and then he loosened everything one part at a time and it was the neck screws that were responsible for killing the tone.

That makes sense. If the top deck's resonance is largely responsible for the tone, tightly coupling it to a large object would kill that resonance.

[Tyler Hall]

True... but the pickup is attached to the neck, not the body. So, wouldn't attaching it tightly killsr resonance but also put more resonance into the neck? That's just my theory. Tightening the neck doesn't make sense but it sure brought my '68 to life. It made a tremendous difference in the overtones and harmonics.

[Paul Sutherland]

I notice some builders use fewer neck screws. My Williams 700 series had 10 per neck, my Emmons has 8 as does my Rains (as far as I recall), I think, but am not sure, that Franklins have 6, and the new Sierras have only 4. Less screws means less to restrict the vibrations in the neck it would seem.

I know my Williams didn't sound nearly as good to me as does my Emmons or Rains. I have no experience with the others.

[Stuart Legg]

there is really only one secret. It's the legend!

[Jeremy Threlfall]

my Anapeg has nothing attached to the underside of the top plate whatsoever. The top plate/neck is secured to the rest of the guitar by the pullrods only and one only (locating?) screw that I can see

If you were to disconnect all the pullrods at the changer by removing the nylons, you could simply slide the top of the guitar off and play it like a lap steel

I have always expected Noel built it that way to avoid dampening the resonance of the top

Some Marlens and old Sierras I've seen are built the same way


2. Rittenberry has just gone to round shafts in his Prestige model. That was done for tone reasons, I believe. But by what mechanism, I have no idea.

[Jeremy Threlfall]

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[b0b]

my Anapeg has nothing attached to the underside of the top plate whatsoever. The top plate/neck is secured to the rest of the guitar by the pullrods only and one only (locating?) screw that I can see

If you were to disconnect all the pullrods at the changer by removing the nylons, you could simply slide the top of the guitar off and play it like a lap steel

I have always expected Noel built it that way to avoid dampening the resonance of the top

Some Marlens and old Sierras I've seen are built the same way...

The new Sierras by Ross Shafer also have a "floating" top deck. There's actually a small gap, about the width of a business card, between the deck and the frame that holds all of the pulling machinery. If you remove the pull rods and the 4 corner bolts, the guitar and changer can be lifted off the frame. Not that I'd ever do that...

The effect of wood resonance on tone cannot be overstated. Ross made a prototype with a spruce deck instead of maple. The difference was astonishing. It made a believer out of me.

[Barry Blackwood]

I've heard more than a few players say that their Emmons p/p student models sounded just as good as the regular "pro" guitars. They have no real neck, and no traditional cast end plates. So how do we explain that?

IMO, it's all subjective...

[Gary Spaeth]

oops. posted in the wrong thread.

[Paul Sutherland]

Ah, the placebo effect. What took you so long?

[Jeremy Threlfall]

The new Sierras by Ross Shafer also have a "floating" top deck. There's actually a small gap, about the width of a business card, between the deck and the frame that holds all of the pulling machinery.

There is a gap between the top plate and the neck also?

[b0b]

The new Sierras by Ross Shafer also have a "floating" top deck. There's actually a small gap, about the width of a business card, between the deck and the frame that holds all of the pulling machinery.

There is a gap between the top plate and the neck also?

Yes there is, and an adjustable "sound post" inspired by violin construction.

[Franklin]

I am surprised this has never surfaced......By the late 60's MSA and Sho-Bud were being mass produced...One of the ways the Emmons company competed with the numbers they could produce was to sell PP kits to whoever...Tommy White's father, Bobbe Seymour, Jimmy Crawford, and some road players in town assembled their own guitars....I believe Clem was one of the assemblers up north..... The kit was a cabinet and all of the parts completely unassembled....So much for the 13 secrets..Who really knows how many of the PP guitars floating around may actually be a kit guitar and not factory assembled? Bottom line if a design sounds good, that's all that matters....If there was some secret to how they were assembled why risk the companies rep by selling kits?

Paul

[John Goux]

“The effect of wood resonance on tone cannot be overstated. Ross made a prototype with a spruce deck instead of maple. The difference was astonishing. It made a believer out of me.”

I played that spruce Sierra, too. His maple guitars, with all the inovations, sound like a top notch pedal steel. That spruce guitar is a whole other beast, and kind of blew me away. It was not as traditional sounding, but it does generate some special energy.

John

[Duane Reese]

Some of the sound is...probably psychological. There, I said it!
(I just didn't say how much of it is. )

I know a lot of people claim that a short keyhead LeGrande sounds about the same, so did anything change between that and the long keyhead guitars?

I've owned three of them (I think – if I remember correctly), I've done plenty of tinkering with them, and I agree with what Bobbe and others said about the changer finger contact not being what does the trick. People probably assume that because it's the most obvious difference with all-pull guitars. My gut tells me that the secret is in the cabinet... If I had to take a shot in the dark, I'd say that the answer is somewhere there.

[Johnie King]

The secret is in the sauce !! Another words the sum off all parts in the recipe an looks like according too Paul the chef could be any number of people.