The Steel Guitar Forum

Thank You!
Yes, Steel is supposed to rip from end to end on some stuff.
We should all be going for it!

There is a few other artist involved in making a record besides the steel player. If you will listen to some of the old 60's country steel playing (I have a wall full of albums) you can hear Buddy Emmons and whoever else just sawing away busy as a bee while the singer is singing but it's hardly noticed because like Donny Hinson said (Donny is one of the best session players in Nashville- I was asked to play what Donny played on a ladies album on her shows and it was very tasty! Great Donny!) they are playing material that is working with the track and the engineers knew how to mix it way below the vocals then bring it back up when necessary. It's there just listen. Most pickers however could not pull it off as slick as what Emmons, Charleton, Myrick and others could do.
As an audio engineer myself I have to give those old engineers credit for knowing how to mix a recording to cover a multitude of sins. In the beginning there was no "fix it in the mix". They were playing/engineering the record while the song was in progress. A dying are maybe dead art today.

Do you really mean Donny Hinson, David? I see that he's not from Nashville. There's also a session player named Steve Hinson. I'm confused.

Joachim Kettner wrote:Do you really mean Donny Hinson, David? I see that he's not from Nashville. There's also a session player named Steve Hinson. I'm confused.

I'm sorry. My bad. It was indeed Steve Hinson who played on the Crystal Sands album in Nashville. Great Country music album. I played for Crystal about a year. She could have been a female George Strait. She just had a pleasant voice that could live in your radio forever. She wanted to do the Taylor Swift thing and I'm not sure how that turned out.
I wonder if Steve and Donny are related? Wasn't there a Hinson family gospel band? Been a long time ago. I get confused.

Here is a song from Crystal's first album that Steve Hinson played on. Crystal also wrote this song. She recorded this album when she was about 22 years old. Lots of good young country singers go to waste.I'm the guy on steel in the pictures. In the picture where I am in the studio on the red Mullen steel you can see Walter Haynes watching me in the chair.Walter was a former Vice President at MCA in Nashville and is in the ISGHOF. Sure do miss Walter. He was my best friend.https://youtu.be/eHCtNr0Wvug

Frank Agliata wrote:
Found another version, made for a TV program in Germany, 1972.

i was hoping to see this show posted in this topic.
Buddy plays all over the vocals, throughout the whole show. i wouldn't have it any other way. *love* it.

is for everyone, in every musical situation? no.
for Buddy, here? the best.

here's the whole show:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZWw87UgrwI

check out everything he plays in that first tune. from 2:25 on. smoking!

Roger Rettig wrote:How can you do that if you're unaware of the song's meaning?

people can play beautiful, emotive stuff over a tune in a language they don't even know.
i get what you're saying, but i'm not sure exactly how borne out it is.

Listen to Buddy playing on John Sebastian's "Rainbow Over Your Blues" for a fine example of playing ( non stop) through a song from beginning to end complimenting the vocals perfectly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuxaVfeqTWA

Bob, thanks for the "Rainbows Over Your Blues" post. It's always a pleasure to hear that iconic recording.

About the "Rainbows" recording; the ensemble seems to be just drums, bass, acoustic rhythm guitar and steel. Also, for the most part, Buddy isn't stepping on the vocals, but playing in a 'call and response' method. Within that context, there are times when the playing overlaps a little of the vocal, but that is due to the vocal phrasing.

One thing that seems to be lost on many lead players (steel and others) when playing in a musical ensemble; the more instruments that are playing, the less each instrument plays, except for the designated rhythm instruments (and in rock n roll ). There may be situations where, because of multiple 'lead' instruments, any given instrument may only play in a certain part, or very sparsely throughout the song. This type of playing calls for pre-arrangements or very good communication with, and a knowledge of the other band members "playing personality". Knowing the other members' "playing personality" usually comes through mutual experience in a band situation.

On the other hand, in situations such as "Rainbows", with just a few apparent instruments, especially if there are rhythm instruments and only one lead instrument, the lead-fill playing is more extensive. If for no other reason than to enhance the musical accompaniment.

Just saying'....

Keep on pickin'!
Glenn

Here's Buddy behavin' himself and not steppin' on the singer's toes.

BTW: This is a later incarnation of the NRPS with Patrick Shanahan replacing Spencer Dryden and Stephen Love replacing Dave Torbert:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9MV6eTCX0M

Keep on pickin'!
Glenn

Mick Taylor's worth of a throne of his own, just for those three albums & four years. I know it's not steel, but it's purrrfect anaway.
Let it Bleed
Sticky Fingers
Exile on Main Street

Jamie Mitchell wrote:

Frank Agliata wrote:
Found another version, made for a TV program in Germany, 1972.

i was hoping to see this show posted in this topic.
Buddy plays all over the vocals, throughout the whole show. i wouldn't have it any other way. *love* it.

is for everyone, in every musical situation? no.
for Buddy, here? the best.

here's the whole show:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZWw87UgrwI


check out everything he plays in that first tune. from 2:25 on. smoking!

That's some of the most uplifting steel pickin' right there now!

Found another interesting Buddy video. NRPS playing the Capital Theatre, Passaic NJ on Halloween, 1975. The song is Crooked Judge, a bluegrass tune.
He's playing banjo type rolls on the open strings and using only the tip of the bar to play individual notes on the 4th and 5th strings up and down the neck. Very cool . .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lf8U49FL6Wg

interesting discussion of what i think to be the central theme of pedal steel guitar; when to play and when not to play. i never feel like i get it right.

listening to ray price with earbuds while stacking wood the other day, i definitely heard a lot of buddy emmons and jimmy day playing "solos" behind the singer. sometimes not, though.

this thread is also a really cool intro to buddy cage for me.

Again, I think the STYLE of it really does hearken back to, yes, Jerry Garcia. Whereas most pads and fills would be a mixup of longer, sustained notes, maybe eighth notes as grace notes, (mostly) pentatonic or even chord tones. But in NRPS, the steel guitar is played far more RHYTHMICALLY than elsewhere, pounding out a steady eighth note beat and often hanging out in one position, repeating licks with minor variations to drive the rhythm of the song. In the spirit of dancing about architecture, I would hold that that goes right back to Jerry Garcia's first serious instrumental weaponry: bluegrass BANJO. So what he was playing on steel guitar, in NRPS, was semi-fulfilling the function of what banjo often did on bluegrass songs. Bluegrass groups didn't HAVE drummers originally, so the mandolinists did the "chop" and the banjo players developed that... twanky throb thing? Throbbing twank...(?) So, because everybody likes to solo, Buddy Cage walked into a steel player's "dream gig" - just solo all the time! (roughly approximating the song structure maybe too.) And there went the neighborhood - and drum kits began to show up for all kinds of bands at the GOO.

DANG!!! That looks like something Neil Peart would play!

Frank Agliata wrote:Found another interesting Buddy video. NRPS playing the Capital Theatre, Passaic NJ on Halloween, 1975. The song is Crooked Judge, a bluegrass tune.
He's playing banjo type rolls on the open strings and using only the tip of the bar to play individual notes on the 4th and 5th strings up and down the neck. Very cool . .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lf8U49FL6Wg

It's amazing how much music he puts out and makes it look so effortless.

'Found one where I was sliding all around at the same time the singer was singing the Verses.
Not really a Buddy Cage ripper, but...
This is Jonah Howard - Wheels On My Heart
They used a Steel Intro lick, then I come in at about 33sec.
https://myspace.com/jonahhoward/music/s ... 60-2144215

I'm a hack player and musician, at best, and sometimes feel guilty even offering my thoughts in a forum that has so many great players and musicians. However, I'm inspired by the fact that, if anything, this thread shows that there are devotees of many styles of playing - those who are classy and reserved, as well as those who go outside of the box, and try to do something daring and different. There isn't only "one way" to be a good backup musician (though some, including the big music producers, might think there is). Players have different styles and approaches, different motivations and personalities, and all have some followers. Lose your individuality, and you lose your identity, for the world usually rewards conformity with obscurity.

Variety is not only the "spice of life", it's also the very soul of music.

Jeff Metz Jr. wrote:Buddys style sort of defies all conventional thought when it comes to stage etiquette.
I was watching some videos and I am more than familiar with most NRPS tracks. Buddy is usually stepping all over the vocals . But at the same time it sort of works. What do you think about this topic?

Definitely works. I always considered Buddy Cage and pedal steel to be the star of that band. That may be because he replaced Garcia, who was the draw of them in their early days. I like the rest of the players, but Cage is just worlds above all of them as a musician. Maybe that's why their songs are like that - and that's why it works.

Jeff,
We will be jamming Thurs. Nov 17 in Hamburg Pa. Let me know if you are interested in attending.

Tommy Detamore does a masterful job over Doug Sham's singing in "Cowboy Peyton Place"

Pete Burak wrote:'Found one where I was sliding all around at the same time the singer was singing the Verses.
Not really a Buddy Cage ripper, but...
This is Jonah Howard - Wheels On My Heart
They used a Steel Intro lick, then I come in at about 33sec.
https://myspace.com/jonahhoward/music/s ... 60-2144215

Very tasteful Pete, I like it . . Should post your own thread

Does anyone remember these guys-Mason Proffit? The steel player plays over the vocals also to a degree,in my opinion
https://youtu.be/35vOkF7PAXE
https://youtu.be/hlEhSPq6Gv8

There's a NRPS album called "Home, Home on the Road" which I only ever had on a cassette which I bought at a truckstop somewhere when I was on the road and played it to death. It was recorded live somewhere and my favorite was a tune called "She's no Angel" that has that Cage style of bubbling along under the vocals and then a ripping solo to boot. I loved all that and tried to play like that in 70s L.A. country bar bands. It's kind of a Bakersfield thing really and some Cajun steel guys can tend to do it too - which I equated to a fiddle player sawing away rhythmically as accompaniment. Sneaky Pete would go there on occasion like what he does on Diggy Liggy Lo on the Burritos Red album. I never did get too much grief for it in those days. But when I got good enough to record and tried to sell myself as a session musician I soon found out that doesn't fly very often in the real world. When I got my own studio in the mid 80s and started using Jay Dee on a lot of sessions cause he lived close by and was the best in town,I realized the art of how playing steel on a record is done. Altho I play nothing like Jay Dee I began trying to emulate the subtleties of how he places himself in the tune,how he gets in and out of a solo etc. I still like to hear Cage wail and still like to try it myself tho I rarely can find a tune where I can justify it. Years ago I played in a band with Buddy Miller and Jim Lauterdale for a short time and picked up pretty quick that they might have thought I was overdoing the Cage bit altho at the time I thought it fit perfectly. Now - at this point in life I've forgotten more licks than I've learned so I can't help but play sparse like a good little steel player. Funny how that works.